FS7: Share videos, test footage, etc.

Liam Hall said:
In theory, it should be LUT first.
Click to expand...
I started getting much better results when I started putting the LUT last or at least after one color corrector. Imagine you used EI 1000 (or just "expose to the right") to have cleaner shadows... If you apply a generic LUT first, you'll blow out your image's highlights immediately. No amount of color correctors after the LUT will ever bring that information back. Putting one color corrector first, however, lets you darken your shot and have greater control over your highlights, saturation, etc. before the LUT is applied.

The way I see it, the LUT is sort of amplifying everything from that flat image. It boosts saturation, deepens the blacks, boosts the highlights, etc. So if you happen to have a rich red in your shot (maybe a light, a jacket, etc), there is a possibility that the LUT will actually cause that color to clip. Putting a color corrector Pre-LUT would let you dial back the color before all of that amplification happens.

For a while I was applying the LUT first and it just gave me headaches because my footage wasn't shot absolutely perfectly. Figuring out the "CC first, LUT second" approach totally changed that.

I should also mention that programs like DaVinci Resolve even support this usage built into the system with Input LUTs and Output LUTs. They even point out that an Input LUT can destroy information that can't be recovered in later nodes.
 
jshbckr said:
I started getting much better results when I started putting the LUT last or at least after one color corrector. Imagine you used EI 1000 (or just "expose to the right") to have cleaner shadows...
Click to expand...

I did say "in theory."

If your exposures are off or you are pushing/pulling, then you can adjust your midpoint first.

Your analysis of LUTs amplifying everything is wrong though. LUTs are digital. They map data points to predetermined values. You can create LUTs that are bright, dark, neutral, green, red, whatever you choose.
 
I shouldn't post this but my project is developing a wild grade but the files in the main are still holding which is pretty excellent..

contact.jpg
 
Liam Hall said:
There are input LUTs and output LUTs. I'm talking input.

LUTs in themselves are not destructive. It's just data. But you can get yourself in a pickle if your footage is exposed incorrectly.
Click to expand...

If you can see detail when LUT off then your footy is not exposed incorrectly (unless its hitting a noise floor etc.)

S
 
morgan_moore said:
In Resolve that is completely wrong. Lut must be last.

Luts are destructive so if your LUT clips you cant pull if back later.

https://vimeo.com/73033931
Click to expand...

I just watched this. Your footage is overexposed and you are applying a 709 LUT - which clips. An exposure adjustment is one thing, but you've got to be careful applying a curve before an input LUT, particularly with skin tone. I once sat with Kodak's European technical manager have a blazing row with a telecine op at Arri in Munich on this very subject.
 
Its not my footage - its some of the firs BMC stuff - an old vid.

If its not clipped (which it is not) it is not over exposed - you can tell clipping with the 'chainsaw' of the tops on the WFM

If you've got a 14stop DR camera with 14 stops in the image and apply a 709 lut (which is a lut with 'proper' contrast) its going to push stuff off the top/bottom (709 only has about 7 stops) - which need to be recovered in secondaries or some other catchall or left blown/crushed

If you don't have proper contrast (aka a 709 lut) your footage looks wooden. To be fair the LC luts are rolling the tops nicely to get maybe 9 stops or whatever by compessing the speculars - its not a bad look.

As for the order - clearly in Resolve you will see that what a lut clips you cant pull back (try it)

No idea what system those guys were using. Maybe their suite didn't clip with the application of a LUT - certainly it is intuitive to apply it first which is how I started..

S
 
Liam Hall said:
I did say "in theory."

If your exposures are off or you are pushing/pulling, then you can adjust your midpoint first.

Your analysis of LUTs amplifying everything is wrong though. LUTs are digital. They map data points to predetermined values. You can create LUTs that are bright, dark, neutral, green, red, whatever you choose.
Click to expand...
I understand that. But typically when we apply these LUTs to our LOG footage, darks get darker, brights get brighter, colors get colorful.
 
morgan_moore said:
Its not my footage - its some of the firs BMC stuff - an old vid.
Click to expand...

Black magic, well no wonder I said it looked overexposed, I thought we discussing Slog footage! Anyway I'll pick this up with you tomorrow. BTW the new firmware has been released.
 
Last edited:
I was thinking of starting a thread such as this one because I’m interested in seeing FS7 footage. Although it seems the thread became just more debate.

I had the chance to try out a FS7 and I have to say it got me interested. The build quality as expected isn’t great and it is not very well balanced as it seems it would or should be. Not very happy with the top handle, handle grip and EVF and it looks like it will need to be rigged after all. But it checks a lot of boxes and for the price it could be a good beater.

I’m still waiting to see if the recent problems are new camera operator error or real problems. But what’s keeping me from pulling the trigger and buying one is actually that I have not seen any footage that made me fall in love yet. I have looked through vimeo and youtube and watched lots of clips but nothing that looked particularly cinematic or wowed me. Many nice clips but nothing that would put a F3 to shame. Yes is 4K but I’m not talking about resolution.

So in a nut shell the current clips show the camera to be a nice camera but nothing outstanding. Sony’s demo was a joke but I was hoping somebody out there would have shot something that looked truly great by now. So I thought of starting a thread asking. But this one will do.

Maybe people are still not passed the test stage yet and have not actually shot anything of meaning yet and footage will come. I’m on the lookout.
 
Liam Hall said:
Right here:-)

http://community.sony.com/t5/FS7/PXW-FS7-Firmware-Ver-1-01-download/m-p/473428#U473428
Click to expand...
Hmm... I'll download it and install it but v1.01 was the version number of the firmware that came out on Nov 24th.

EDIT: And the firmware download shows that the "date modified" of the BIN file (update file) was Nov 6, 2014. So I don't think this is the new firmware. Bizarre that they made a topic for the current firmware after just talking about the new firmware.
 
Last edited:
Yep, just noticed that. Not sure why Juan would post this version, they are rumoured to be releasing the next firmware this week. Maybe he inked the wrong software. I'll check in the morni - got to sleep!
 
Liam Hall said:


Black magic, well no wonder I said it looked overexposed, I thought we discussing Slog footage! Anyway I'll pick this up with you tomorrow. BTW the new firmware has been released.
Click to expand...

It could have been shot with an iPhone - it is just footage - the thing is that once your LUT clips a channel that information is not recoverable in a further node. (in Resolve)

Josh said it perfectly.. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...ge-etc&p=1986503681&viewfull=1#post1986503681
 
You misunderstand me Morgan. I know it's just footage. But if it was properly shot log footage the WFM would have looked different.

I understand your point about Resolve. I don't use Resolve, so lets leave that to one side for the moment. My point, is an important one; you need to properly del-log your footage before grading. Of course, part of that process is making sure you'e not clipping, but people shouldn't be making colour adjustments or dramatic curve adjustments. I'd choose an exposure slider or levels adjustment before curves at this point.
 
But if your log footage is properly exposed then when you apply (certain) luts the blacks will crush and the highlights blow, they can then (or not) be recovered with secondaries.

If your suite applies LUTs in a non destructive manner then the order of application is indeed irrelevant.

Yes - using curves may be 'wrong' - I now tend to use log wheels as my 'exposure slider' Resolve does not have an exposure slider for non raw cameras.. Ill be bringing that up with them and suggesting they read EI metadata if at all possible.

I made a little vid to see what some LUTs do; https://vimeo.com/103654130

S
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top