Setting the 411 straight

D

D_and_G

Well-known member
Ok. I spent some time reading this stuff, and if I missed it please forgive me :beer: I'll look foolish for the sake of clarifications, though. Everyone At RED team Amsterdam is probably rightly very drunk on pale Ale by now , but here I go:



1. Monitoring 4K

When recording 4K REDCODE RAW or 4K uncompressed, is there a simultaneous video output (not recording) in RGB to monitor the image ? I realize you are splitting the processing chores with 4K, as to get the most out of it, with REDCine but how does that affect on set monitoring ?

2. 2K -

What is the acquiring format ? Is it 2K uncompressed, 4:4:4 RGB, REDCODE, or REDCODE RAW ?
a) What is the data rate for RED's 2K ? You've mentioned the rates for 4K, but what about 2K scaled?
b) Where does the REDCODE variable bit rate wavelet codec 10 bit log fit in there ?

3. NLE compatibility

Assuming we are not shoooting 4K and using REDCine to transcode to an editable format, if we are shooting 2K scaled, then Avid/FCP/ Vegas - how ?

4. News on suggestions -

Any updates on possible inclusion of digital slates, LUT's, Arriglow-type enhancements ?

5. approximate REDCine price ?

6. Is 4K REDCODE RAW or 4K uncompressed a huge difference from 2K scaled ? Is it worth the post-pro adoptions ? Edit :For film out (theoretically)...

7. Integrated colour correction tools or third party add on to REDCINE please? I have a feeling a vendor could make a bundle if they did that.




First impressions are that you guys are going in the right direction, although I have questions. Maybe I should send Jim a commmercial i shot a ways back for a female cigar club :) (if I can find it).

Still want to see that 4K footage on a decent format, but no rush guys. A cold beer, and a RED revolution on a Friday night :beer:

PS - I don't mind if you give me "Info. to come later" answer if you have too, but I needed to ask.


RED # wish I was higher
 
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One question I have with REDcine is could you shoot full 4K with timecode. with Redcine convert that to say 1080 Do you offline and then take that EDL with matching timecode to the 4K footage to do your online. Instead of taking your 4k out of REDcine and then have to do the down conversion tird party.
 
I dont have all the answers but I can answer a few:

Monitoring 4k:

when recording redcode raw 4k there will be a way to monitor the image in camera or to an external monitor (presumably through HD SDI or such)

This wouldnt be 4k monitoring but I dont know of a 4k monitoring device anyway.

2k Scaled:
They havent mentioned what the codec will be yet so Im interested in this answer as well.

NLE compatibility:
Again no solid info on this yet. I would imagine they will release codecs much in the same way Blackmagic and AJA do for their products. Most likely will run in quicktime.

REDCINE price:
Free with camera.

4k VS 2k:
I wasnt at the screening but im not sure what you are asking. 4k is definitely a big difference if you plan to display on a 4k device. If you display on a 2k device and plan on shooting 4k REDCODE RAW and REDCINE to downconvert to 2k, well, thats whats already going on inside the camera when you shoot 2k scaled. Now in terms of a post workflow, the benefits of doing 4k is you can do visual fx at 4k and downconvert to 2k. Most folks wont be doing this and 2k scaled (in camera) would probably not be visually discernible from 4k redcode raw, on-lined at 4k, and down converted to 2k. Keep in mind it will still be very difficult to do any post at 4k.

P.S. REDCINE has basic built in color correction tools.
 
Emery Wells said:
REDCINE price:
Free with camera.

4k VS 2k:
I wasnt at the screening but im not sure what you are asking. 4k is definitely a big difference if you plan to display on a 4k device. If you display on a 2k device and plan on shooting 4k REDCODE RAW and REDCINE to downconvert to 2k, well, thats whats already going on inside the camera when you shoot 2k scaled. Now in terms of a post workflow, the benefits of doing 4k is you can do visual fx at 4k and downconvert to 2k. Most folks wont be doing this and 2k scaled (in camera) would probably not be visually discernible from 4k redcode raw, on-lined at 4k, and down converted to 2k. Keep in mind it will still be very difficult to do any post at 4k.

P.S. REDCINE has basic built in color correction tools.
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Thanks Emery, Sidderke, and imgentertainment ;)

To clarify, when editing 4K uncompressed or REDCODE RAW, as Graeme mentioned you need to put the image through REDcine to get correct white balance, gamma, gain, curve, etc... I know in the Viper, you have to put the RAW image through an RGB converter (when shooting) to get an approximate final image on your on set monitor (which is in a way accomplishing the same thing as REDcine in post). I just want to make sure that even though you're recording 4K RAW that you'll be seeing an RGB video out for monitoring and adjusting lights etc...

As to the difference between 2K scaled and 4K, I was more talking about a film out difference. Since there isn't widespread 4K projectors adopted yet, what would be any theoretical benefits of 4K or 2K filmed out on a projector in theaters today ? I'm just trying to get a feel if 4K filming would be worth the $. i've been going on the assumption that 2K scaled will be the sweet spot.

REDcine - Imagine Final Touch and REDcine bundled together for a special price. That's more along the lines of what i was suggesting.

Free. Good News!


RED# wish I was higher
 
Thats one of the problems we will face in the beginning. Although Red is revolutionary in its price, when you add up the lense, the recording medium, and especially the software, it adds up to a large total.

Over time these things will get cheaper, though the early adopters will have to be the experimental goats...
 
filmmaker1977 said:
411.. couldn't you get another number.. it reminds me a different sad story in september..
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Sorry dude. It's just slang for information in Canada.

If Jarred wants to change it (I can't edit thread titles) to setting the "info." straight then that'd be cool. It didn't occur to me people would make the reference.

Today is a celebration. 4K. New info. Lots of questions... throwing me 3 pence, good stuff...
:beer:

Edit : You can also delete these posts that reference that day Jarred (if you want)...


RED # wish I was higher
 
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4k for film out would be the way to go! However, Why would you do that? A film out cost big dollars.. Most digital theaters have 2k projectors. Yes for wide spread distribution film out is a must! So if you have, big budget backing go 4k. I plan on shooting 2k. Should I be so lucky, and project sells then they'll pay for any film out at that point. Sorry off topic.
 
D_and_G said:
Sorry dude. It's just slang for information in Canada.

If Jarred wants to change it (I can't edit thread titles) to setting the "info." straight then that'd be cool. It didn't occur to me people would make the reference.

Today is a celebration. 4K. New info. Lots of questions... throwing me 3 pence, good stuff...
:beer:

Edit : You can also delete these posts that reference that day Jarred (if you want)...


RED # wish I was higher
Click to expand...
it's not a big deal but thx anyway for your care. just a thought..
 
JTmoney said:
4k for film out would be the way to go! However, Why would you do that? A film out cost big dollars.. Most digital theaters have 2k projectors. Yes for wide spread distribution film out is a must! So if you have, big budget backing go 4k. I plan on shooting 2k. Should I be so lucky, and project sells then they'll pay for any film out at that point. Sorry off topic.
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Haha JT, you are actually on topic. If the 4K workflow makes sense finacially then I'd love to do it, but there are questions. So far, I've been looking at 2K shooting only. 4K was only a dream... If any of the RED team can enlighten me on some of the aforementioned ?'s, it'd be appreciated. Even if they have to say - "later info. coming".
:beer:

Edit: I understand they're busy :)

RED# wish I was higher
 
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