Sent My Camera in For Repair...Can't Hack it Now

[Fool4UAnyway]

Just wondering how to prevent Panny from doing this we do not like them to do to the stuff we own...

If one were to have two GH1's, one of which would have a problem like this and the other one not hackable, would it be possible to exchange the firmware chips between the cams and send the broken GH1 with the new V1.34 firmware to Panny?

That would be another alternative way to make our firmware survive.

No thoughts, anyone, on the password file I mentioned earlier?

 

[Ben_B]

Are you into photography? Nikon is the same or worse than panasonic in the video realm. They are slow to adopt the standards, and make no real updates, just relentlessly minor tweaks, giving the consumer just enough to hang on, buying this year's new body till the next body "fixes" their issues.

Yeah, panasonic is now on the sucks list too, since they took away the hack option, they want us to pay $5999 for an AF100.

Personally, I will not get an AF100 since it doesn't have 4:2:2 color space. That means it is just an expensive dslr with xlr mic in and zebra bars. It won't be the worst VFX camera, but at that price range, I'd feel gypped that it is only 4:2:0.

And I will not get their GH2 either. Ah well.

Budget: T2i
Enthusiast: 5D
Pro: RED 1 MX (i know there are some red haters, but it is cheaper than sony and arri, while producing about the same results. But if you have a choice, than you don't need to read this forum thread.)

If you're going to spend the extra tens of thousands of dollars for a RED system why not just spend the few thousand and get an external P2 recorder for the AF-100 and use HDSDI or HDMI out?

The plain fact of the matter is that yeah, they AF-100 will introduce a lot of professional workflow features... but st 24mbits.... unless they do some CRAZY magic... I can't see it beating the hacked GH1.3 image.... at least not beating it byt $4000 worth of money!!!!!

Already it is obvious that the hacked gh1 image blows the pants off the hvx200a and hpx170 in 99% of footage - except for color space and very fast moving action....

But only geeks know this... the audience doesn't know if you spent $1000 or $6,000, and the fact of the matter the hacked GH1 smahses the hvx and hps.. it takes a big poo on it. It also smashes the entire line of Canon hd-dslrs.....

The only thing fanboys of the canons can do is cry about better low light.... but I would way rather have the detailed double resolution and clarity of the GH1.3 then the low light color smoosh soft resolution of the canons.. and I DID my homework like a nutcase pixel peeping both cameras to DEATH.

So.. it comes down to this... GH2 seems like it's going to be a big waste of time or just an extra toy for GH1.3 users.

AF-100 seems like it's not really going to do anything better for the image, but will have all the pro support and in's and outs... but is that REALLY worth $4000 more? Unless you are shooting constantly with full crews on tight schedules and high budgets..... the end all IQ image quality will most likely be the same I am thinking.... if not BETTER on the hacked gh1s.

Sorry... 24mbit does NOT CUT IT on high detail 1920 x 1080 no matter how smart there codec is.

I don't know how much you've used the HPX-170 and the HMC-150, etc, but they beat the crap out of the GH13 for resolved resolution and image quality. Specifically the HMC-150, at 24Mb, has a much better codec that records a much cleaner image than the GH13. Even with my hacked camera (which is great) I still sometimes see areas of blockiness in high detail, or pixely fuzz around edges (which is likely exacerbated by the aliasing)...the HMC 150 doesn't do that, at all. Take a look at some of your footage, zoom in to 400% or so on the edge of a person in focus, and take a look at the edge on playback...chances are your hack didn't fix that. HMC-150 doesn't have that, HMC-150 codec implementation really kicks ass...it's ass good as Sony EX1, etc, and I don't have any problem doing whip pans in a forest with either camera, and I've done it with both (given the university I attend is located IN a forest.)

 

[Ian-T]

I don't know how much you've used the HPX-170 and the HMC-150, etc, but they beat the crap out of the GH13 for resolved resolution and image quality.

Really? You are actually the first person I've seen say that. Not saying it isn't true...but I do recall an unscientific video test over a year ago with the
(pre=hacked) GH-1 and the 170. As far as detail the DSLR was on par or had it beat. Now....if we are talking about codec quality....the yeah you're right.

 

[bonobored]

Perhaps if you read the thread you would see that I did not send it in purely for the failure of strap rivets. That's twice now that someone has failed to read and then gotten on my case for doing something I didn't do. Seriously people. And for the record, I didn't even realize they were loose. From what I noticed, one time the left side was on, and the next time it wasn't.

You sent it in because you didn't pay attention and let the nut from the strap lug rattle around inside and short out your electronics. I have heard this sad story more than once. Let this be a heads up to others who are still using the lugs. If they rotate at all you have a potential problem. The best option is to not use the strap lugs at all. It's a design flaw of the camera.

 

[tommygdawg]

You sent it in because you didn't pay attention and let the nut from the strap lug rattle around inside and short out your electronics. I have heard this sad story more than once. Let this be a heads up to others who are still using the lugs. If they rotate at all you have a potential problem. The best option is to not use the strap lugs at all. It's a design flaw of the camera.

My fine-feathered friend, I did not even have the camera when the strap lugs broke (as far as I'm aware). I lent it to a friend to do some wedding photos, and that's how it came back. My fault? I don't think so. Yes, perhaps you could argue "don't lend out your camera", but it's not like this is my friend's fault or mine.

And really, are you telling me not to use the strap? That's what it's there for! It is NOT my fault that Panasonic created faulty strap lugs that don't work correctly. Blame it on me all you want for using the strap lugs, but I really don't think that's fair since that's what they're there for.

And on a further note, why on earth am I defending myself here? The thread isn't even really about the broken strap lugs, rather about Panasonic performing unwanted upgrades. Is there anything else you'd like to add? Maye you have recommendations about rather or not I should other features on the camera? If you have opinions on how I should or should not use the standard features of my camera in the future, please keep them to yourself.

 

[Guest]

If you're going to spend the extra tens of thousands of dollars for a RED system why not just spend the few thousand and get an external P2 recorder for the AF-100 and use HDSDI or HDMI out?

The extra recorder doesn't put these two cameras in the same class. So, that is not exactly a logical conclusion.

I did not list the semi-pro class, as there are many options that could make one camera a better value than the other. The AF-100 is somewhat in the semi-pro class, but is lacking in its native capabilities. The external recorder will bump it up to higher data rates and 4:2:2, but still only 8 bit, from what I hear.

The AF100 has the luxury of being the first of its kind, but it is still lacking certain key features that I would like in that genre and price range.

 

[alignment1]

Really? You are actually the first person I've seen say that. Not saying it isn't true...but I do recall an unscientific video test over a year ago with the
(pre=hacked) GH-1 and the 170. As far as detail the DSLR was on par or had it beat. Now....if we are talking about codec quality....the yeah you're right.

wow really?? news to me too

 

[Guest]

My fine-feathered friend, I did not even have the camera when the strap lugs broke (as far as I'm aware). I lent it to a friend to do some wedding photos, and that's how it came back. My fault? I don't think so. Yes, perhaps you could argue "don't lend out your camera", but it's not like this is my friend's fault or mine.

And really, are you telling me not to use the strap? That's what it's there for! It is NOT my fault that Panasonic created faulty strap lugs that don't work correctly. Blame it on me all you want for using the strap lugs, but I really don't think that's fair since that's what they're there for.

And on a further note, why on earth am I defending myself here? The thread isn't even really about the broken strap lugs, rather about Panasonic performing unwanted upgrades. Is there anything else you'd like to add? Maye you have recommendations about rather or not I should other features on the camera? If you have opinions on how I should or should not use the standard features of my camera in the future, please keep them to yourself.

I think Vitaliy answered the question to your initial post on page one. Do you have any more questions? Sorry, if we haven't answered all your queries yet.

 

[Ben_B]

Really? You are actually the first person I've seen say that. Not saying it isn't true...but I do recall an unscientific video test over a year ago with the
(pre=hacked) GH-1 and the 170. As far as detail the DSLR was on par or had it beat. Now....if we are talking about codec quality....the yeah you're right.

wow really?? news to me too

It might look like it has more detail but there is a lot of false detail...bigger sensor can have some advantages though...but if you shoot a res chart with both you'll see the real video camera will resolve significantly better resolution...and yes, the codec is going to be much better to...obviously the HPX-170 has a much better codec, but so does the HMC-150!

 

[reem12]

At this point I'm in agreement with others here concerning the af100 being a mutant size dslr that probably will not render that much of a significant image spike to warrant an additional $4000 price tag.

I'm sick of these big companies monopolizing as they do. For this recent stunt they have pulled I will not be investing in the af100 and will lobby others not to as well.

 

[Framerate]

Let this be a heads up to others who are still using the lugs. If they rotate at all you have a potential problem.

Not really true. The modified lugs are supposed to move a few degrees in either direction (hard to be precise, but say 6 or 7 degrees - certainly not much)

There is a plastic plate that fits over the head of the internal nut which is supposed to stop any movement beyond the few degrees referred to above. If the lug *does* move more that that it hasn't got the mod - and is destined for trouble.

Given the very short shank onto which the nut screws, a couple of revolutions would be enough to see it fall of the end.

The best option is to not use the strap lugs at all. It's a design flaw of the camera.

True - but that's a very poor reflection on Panasonic quality. A bit like buying a car and having to climb in and out via the window because the door might fall off if you opened it

 

[Camera Expert]

I think the HMC150 and the HPX170 are really not good examples on how the picture quality of the AF100 is going to look. I would rather use the HMC40 as an example. In good lighting, that thing is a bit sharper than both of those camcorders.

 

[Andreus]

Boycott panasonic!!!!

Boycott panasonic!!!!

At this point I'm in agreement with others here concerning the af100 being a mutant size dslr that probably will not render that much of a significant image spike to warrant an additional $4000 price tag.

I'm sick of these big companies monopolizing as they do. For this recent stunt they have pulled I will not be investing in the af100 and will lobby others not to as well.

AMEN!!!!!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: Boycott Panasonic. I will not buy a single new product from them until they support Vitaly and the hack and will tell everyone I know here (I go to a major film school in Los Angeles) to do the exact same. Can we get a website up for this BOYCOTT OF PANASONIC?:kali:

Screw these conglomerates who think they can railroad/bully their own customers. :thumbdown :kali: :thumbdown I have bought thousands of $$$ worth of Panasonic cameras and lenses on eBay and Craigslist in the last 90 days, just to spite them :grin: (and guess what -- I saved $ money doing it AND got better equipment than I would have gotten from them in the process.) rogar-Love(DBG):

And I will most certainly NOT be spending $4000 on an AF-100 !! Or $2000 on a GH2, the most overpriced crap second generation product ever. The GH1 is much better and costs less. Aren't digital cameras supposed to get better AND cheaper with each generation? But Panasonic can violate all these basic competitive practices -- they innovate less, cripple products, and charge MORE? AND railroad our hack?!?!:furious3:

"I want you all to get up, go to the window, open it and yell, ' I'm as mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore! ' " - Network (1976)

BOYCOTT PANASONIC UNTIL WE GET SUPPORT FOR 4 HACK!

We're as MAD AS HELL and we're NOT gonna take it ANY MORE Panasonic!:furious3: :violent5:

 

[shaveblog]

I'm not good at sniffing this sort of thing, so please tell me you were kidding.

AMEN!!!!!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: Boycott Panasonic. I will not buy a single new product from them until they support Vitaly and the hack and will tell everyone I know here (I go to a major film school in Los Angeles) to do the exact same. Can we get a website up for this BOYCOTT OF PANASONIC?:kali:

Screw these conglomerates who think they can railroad/bully their own customers. :thumbdown :kali: :thumbdown I have bought thousands of $$$ worth of Panasonic cameras and lenses on eBay and Craigslist in the last 90 days, just to spite them :grin: (and guess what -- I saved $ money doing it AND got better equipment than I would have gotten from them in the process.) rogar-Love(DBG):

And I will most certainly NOT be spending $4000 on an AF-100 !! Or $2000 on a GH2, the most overpriced crap second generation product ever. The GH1 is much better and costs less. Aren't digital cameras supposed to get better AND cheaper with each generation? But Panasonic can violate all these basic competitive practices -- they innovate less, cripple products, and charge MORE? AND railroad our hack?!?!:furious3:

"I want you all to get up, go to the window, open it and yell, ' I'm as mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore! ' " - Network (1976)

BOYCOTT PANASONIC UNTIL WE GET SUPPORT FOR 4 HACK!

We're as MAD AS HELL and we're NOT gonna take it ANY MORE Panasonic!:furious3: :violent5:

 

[Ben_B]

I'm not good at sniffing this sort of thing, so please tell me you were kidding.

God I hope so..given that the AF-100 kicks serious ass and was Panasonic giving the pro video community exactly what they wanted. If you won't buy an AF-100 for $4995 (not $4k, I wish!) then you probably weren't the guy buying an HVX-200 for $6,000 or any other piece of pro gear from them so why should they care? It's a totally kick ass camera.

As for the GH2, it costs $900, not $2000, and has some great new features...basically everything we wanted for the GH1, including live HDMI out (unmolested save for a recording icon which could easily be cropped out,) manual audio controls (including level monitoring while recording,) a live zebra type feature, a vastly improved codec with b-frames and a higher bitrate, more programmable function buttons, a touch screen, and extremely fast and reliable auto focus. Sounds like a pretty nice upgrade to me.

 

[Guest]

Panasonic giving the pro video community exactly what they wanted.

They are giving us what we wanted in 2007. It is nearly 2011.
(actually, people were sawing off the front ends of dvx's to attach their own lenses before 2003.)


The climate has changed and the technology has changed. They are not going out of their way to "help" us, they are just keeping up with the competition.

I do not mind it when companies cannot develop a product due to hardware and manufacturing processes, but it does sting when they are holding back a product in the software only. And not only that, but spending time and resources to prevent hacking.


--------------

If you look at the msrp for the af100, it is exactly the same price point as the dvx100, once you factor in 20-25% inflation.

Does that mean it is a good deal? No, it actually means it is overpriced.

Look at the production cost of a dvx vs. an af:
-Servo zoom lens vs. no lens
-3 CCD vs. 1 CMOS
-Tape deck vs. memory card reader/writer
-1394/Component/S-Video vs. HDSI/HDMI

It appears the af100 has potential for panasonic to make higher profit margins than the dvx100.

Another factor is that inflation has gone up since 2001, but salary has not kept up. That means buyers are more strapped for cash and cannot make as big of margins off of their purchases. Add that to the change in industry trends from large mass market to smaller web market, and salaries have dropped further.

 

[Ben_B]

Production cost is not the only factor. Look at the R&D costs necessary to develop HD imagers, large CMOS sensors, AVCHD, etc. It makes sense that modern equipment will cost about the same as its older counterparts did...lens or no.

 

[Guest]

Ben, would you buy the af100 if it cost $6000?

 

[Doppler9000]

I'm sick of these big companies monopolizing as they do. For this recent stunt they have pulled I will not be investing in the af100 and will lobby others not to as well.

For what it's worth, a "monopoly" exists when there is just a single supplier to a market.

Are you suggesting that Panasonic, Canon, Nikon, etc., are not competing with each other and have instead entered into a conspiracy to withhold cheap, high quality video cameras so that the professional is forced to buy the more expensive models? Or, could it be, that you get what you pay for. The recent arguments seem akin to complaining that the Yaris could be made faster and handle better, but that Toyota refuses to do so so that people are forced to buy a more expensive car. If you want the performance of 350Z, you will have to pay for it. It seems that you do not have any experience with the higher quality cameras, and are rejecting any performance advantage they might hold based on pure supposition.

 

[Guest]

For what it's worth, a "monopoly" exists when there is just a single supplier to a market.

Are you suggesting that Panasonic, Canon, Nikon, etc., are not competing with each other and have instead entered into a conspiracy to withhold cheap, high quality video cameras so that the professional is forced to buy the more expensive models? Or, could it be, that you get what you pay for. The recent arguments seem akin to complaining that the Yaris could be made faster and handle better, but that Toyota refuses to do so so that people are forced to buy a more expensive car. If you want the performance of 350Z, you will have to pay for it. It seems that you do not have any experience with the higher quality cameras, and are rejecting any performance advantage they might hold based on pure supposition.

It is more like if Panasonic made a truck but used software to reduce the power of the engine to 1/3. The GH1 is a great little camera, but crippled by Panasonic firmware. That is not a conspiracy, that is a fact.