Sent My Camera in For Repair...Can't Hack it Now

[Doppler9000]

It is more like if Panasonic made a truck but used software to reduce the power of the engine to 1/3. The GH1 is a great little camera, but crippled by Panasonic firmware. That is not a conspiracy, that is a fact.

It is not a "fact" that Panasonic "crippled" the GH1.

For the vast majority of its users, it works perfectly well.

Panasonic is interested in selling a very reliable product that meets the expectations of its users, without card read errors, calls to the service desk, etc, etc. The GH1 did that. The GH1, G10, G2, GH2, Gf1, etc. are testament to the success of Panasonic's approach to the mirrorless market segment. Matsushita, the parent of Panasonic, has consistently produced among the most reliable products in market segments ranging from VCRs to vacuum cleaners. They are willing to trade the ultimate in performance for reliability, simplicity, ease of use, lower backend costs, for a product targeted at a mainstream market segment.

Why do you think Panasonic "crippled" the GH1? Please, tell us of the hidden agenda.

 

[Guest]

It is not a "fact" that Panasonic "crippled" the GH1.

For the vast majority of its users, it works perfectly well.

Panasonic is interested in selling a very reliable product that meets the expectations of its users, without card read errors, calls to the service desk, etc, etc. The GH1 did that. The GH1, G10, G2, GH2, Gf1, etc. are testament to the success of Panasonic's approach to the mirrorless market segment. Matsushi*a, the parent of Panasonic, has consistently produced among the most reliable products in market segments ranging from VCRs to vacuum cleaners. They are willing to trade the ultimate in performance for reliability, simplicity, ease of use, lower backend costs, for a product targeted at a mainstream market segment.

Why do you think Panasonic "crippled" the GH1? Please, tell us of the hidden agenda.

There is no conspiracy or hidden agenda. They are a very successful company that brings competitive products to market for huge profits.

The GH1 has potential beyond what Panasonic allows it, and they prevent users from hacking it to do so. To my knowledge they have made no statement on the subject, so the reasons for doing this are their own, but they have no conspiracy.

 

[reem12]

Doppler9000 I was referring to companies with the ability to control by way of being the main player able to supply a certain product at any given time, thus causing consumers to depend on their other inferior firmware until they see fit to feed us what we really want.

In a nutshell, Panny and other companies alike have been exposed by vitally, meaning that It's as simple as software to make it's customers happy. So yes I say monopoly, Control, however you would like to phrase it.

 

[Ben_B]

Ben, would you buy the af100 if it cost $6000?

I won't buy it at $4995 because it's more camera than I personally need for the level of work I'm doing. Would I rather shoot with one than any other $6,000 camera? Hell yes. And that's really what you need to look at. I'd much rather shoot on this than an EX1r or any other camera at this pricepoint.

 

[Guest]

I won't buy it at $4995 because it's more camera than I personally need for the level of work I'm doing. Would I rather shoot with one than any other $6,000 camera? Hell yes. And that's really what you need to look at. I'd much rather shoot on this than an EX1r or any other camera at this pricepoint.

If you're not planning on buying a camera in this range, I really don't have much to discuss with you on the topic. Not to say you are not an excellent DP, which I believe you are, but it seems rather frivolous.

 

[geta]

Same at here!

Seems I am unlucky enough to get a "new version" of GF1. I asked a friend to get two brand new GF1s for me from Japan few days ago, while I check the body's firmware version, it had been already upgraded to 1.2. Anyway, I follow the patching procedures but the patched firmware doesn't work for the body. I use the same procedures on the other GF1 which is working fine (this one's firmware version 1.1). So I guess there is sth changed inside the body?

 

[Doppler9000]

Doppler9000 I was referring to companies with the ability to control by way of being the main player able to supply a certain product at any given time, thus causing consumers to depend on their other inferior firmware until they see fit to feed us what we really want.

In a nutshell, Panny and other companies alike have been exposed by vitally, meaning that It's as simple as software to make it's customers happy. So yes I say monopoly, Control, however you would like to phrase it.

Probably a bit pointless to continue on this thread, but....

Your premise relies on either stupidity or a conspiracy on the part of Panasonic, Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. You assert that all of these companies are withholding better products for some mysterious reason, and "feeding" the market, placating it with inferior goods. Do these companies compete, or not?

If they compete, then presumably they will offer the product they feel best suits the intended market - they are not going to bring out products that are intentionally crippled, are they?

It seems more likely that, as I wrote earlier, Panasonic wants a super reliable product that doesn't create a flood of calls to the service desk. Margins are way too tight for that. You may be happy with a 10% rate of "card read error" - Panasonic is not.

Canon is getting hammered by Nikon this year - do you think they are withholding better products as they watch their ass get kicked? Do you think Panasonic has proprietary software that is simply better than what Canon could produce?

If they don't compete, they collude (conspire).

The market you identify "we", is a tiny fraction of a rounding error for a company like Matsushita. The GH1, for example, didn't rank in the top 20 DLSR/ILC cameras sold in the first half of 2010, selling under 1% of unit volume (the GF1 was 7th, with a 6.1% share). The budget "pro" indie filmmaker market is not one a company like Matsushita is interested in. The GH2 specs rather bear this out, no?

 

[Kellar42]

If you're not planning on buying a camera in this range, I really don't have much to discuss with you on the topic. Not to say you are not an excellent DP, which I believe you are, but it seems rather frivolous.

This seems weird to me. How many really professional DPs own their own gear? Ben can't have an opinion because he's not going to buy the camera? How is that frivolous on his part? He wants to shoot on one, when he can. Not everyone can afford the setup right now.

 

[Guest]

This seems weird to me. How many really professional DPs own their own gear? Ben can't have an opinion because he's not going to buy the camera? How is that frivolous on his part? He wants to shoot on one, when he can. Not everyone can afford the setup right now.

Thanks for bringing that up, Kellar. It was a very short reply, and perhaps easy to misread. There is nothing frivolous about Ben, and no one is trying to stop him from making his opinion known. I just realized that we were two guys on a forum talking about a piece of gear we do not plan on owning. We have different reasons, but our reasons lead us to the same point.

 

[RieniO]

Did you ever consider the possibility that the people who repaired your GH1 might not even be aware of the hack and that they were just trying to do you a favor by upgrading the firmware? All they know maybe is that in order to make a camera work optimal you should upgrade to the most recent software/firmware, I guess any camera repair man working for any brand would do this.

 

[RieniO]

There's a lot of negative crap going around in here lately but the below really beats it all. Nobody here is asking you to buy any Panasonic product. It's free world. Get out of here and go buy something else. Buy some crack.

AMEN!!!!!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: Boycott Panasonic. I will not buy a single new product from them until they support Vitaly and the hack and will tell everyone I know here (I go to a major film school in Los Angeles) to do the exact same. Can we get a website up for this BOYCOTT OF PANASONIC?:kali:

Screw these conglomerates who think they can railroad/bully their own customers. :thumbdown :kali: :thumbdown I have bought thousands of $$$ worth of Panasonic cameras and lenses on eBay and Craigslist in the last 90 days, just to spite them :grin: (and guess what -- I saved $ money doing it AND got better equipment than I would have gotten from them in the process.) rogar-Love(DBG):

And I will most certainly NOT be spending $4000 on an AF-100 !! Or $2000 on a GH2, the most overpriced crap second generation product ever. The GH1 is much better and costs less. Aren't digital cameras supposed to get better AND cheaper with each generation? But Panasonic can violate all these basic competitive practices -- they innovate less, cripple products, and charge MORE? AND railroad our hack?!?!:furious3:

"I want you all to get up, go to the window, open it and yell, ' I'm as mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore! ' " - Network (1976)

BOYCOTT PANASONIC UNTIL WE GET SUPPORT FOR 4 HACK!

We're as MAD AS HELL and we're NOT gonna take it ANY MORE Panasonic!:furious3: :violent5:

 

[RieniO]

Exactly. We created a list of requests for the GH2 in here and it seems that all our requests have been fullfilled by Panasonic.

If I was working for Panasonic and reading all the negative crap about them in here I would feel really shitty.

I guess this is what the internet does to some people. Hiding behind their monitors and have big mouths about anybody and anything, cowardly taking out their frustrations, shouting that everything should be for free and that THEY, the masters, deserve the best of the best. But in fact they're just pathetic nobodies.

As for the GH2, it costs $900, not $2000, and has some great new features...basically everything we wanted for the GH1, including live HDMI out (unmolested save for a recording icon which could easily be cropped out,) manual audio controls (including level monitoring while recording,) a live zebra type feature, a vastly improved codec with b-frames and a higher bitrate, more programmable function buttons, a touch screen, and extremely fast and reliable auto focus. Sounds like a pretty nice upgrade to me.

 

[Doppler9000]

There is no conspiracy or hidden agenda. They are a very successful company that brings competitive products to market for huge profits.

Another factual correction - Panasonic has lost (net income) over 570 Billion Yen since the beginning of fiscal 2009. A huge sum indeed.

 

[svecher]

Did you ever consider the possibility that the people who repaired your GH1 might not even be aware of the hack and that they were just trying to do you a favor by upgrading the firmware? All they know maybe is that in order to make a camera work optimal you should upgrade to the most recent software/firmware, I guess any camera repair man working for any brand would do this.

I am the GH1 owner and the latest firmware version available to me is v1.32. Why is Panasonic not doing me "a favor" by withholding the latest and greatest firmware (v.1.34) that some of the owners apparently are getting?

 

[Fool4UAnyway]

Though not 100% comparable, I thought this might be a similar situation to show that Panasonic at least isn't doing anything possible to satisfy all their customers who own any product of theirs.

It's like sending in your computer for repair because whatever isn't functioning well and you get it back, repaired, though to find that the alternative Internet Browser you were using has been removed and replaced by Internet Explorer, because you are using Microsoft Windows, and you won't be able anymore to use any other Browser.

Would you think of this as a (repair) company "trying to satisfy customers" or "trying to apply their wishes by abusing customers' needs situations"?

If Panasonic wants to make a reliable product, that's fine.
If Microsoft wants to promote Internet Explorer, that's fine.

But no company should ever be allowed to force me to drive my car with at least one, or even both hands, always holding the steering wheel. I can decide for myself if I want to drive the safe way, or just remove my hands for a very short time.

Anyone might argue that it's best or safest to at least keep one hand at the wheel, but would you accept never being able to take both of, anymore?

Addition:
I also have a GH1 which tells me to reboot. All of a sudden, I wasn't able to take any pictures anymore. Video mode still functions. I do not know what happened.

I mailed the Panasonic Service Centre, accidently mentioned the firmware version of another camera I own, V1.7. They replied that the firmware should be replaced. I explained I was mistaken. I went to a couple of stores and told them about my problem. Their first response was that the firmware should be replaced.

The (not so) funny thing is: this happened just after I applied the V1.32 firmware released in May. I told them all as well. I did not even know about the hack back then and found out about it searching for a possible solution. It seemed to me this couldn't be just a firmware problem. It turned out not to be, because the hack allowed me to re-place the same firmware and later even prior version after applying the "version compare" patch. Neither firmware version solved my problem.

So, by firmware alone, my problem can't be solved. It also seems hard to believe that there is a software part in this. I mentioned a few suggestions in trying to avoid having the Service Centre replace the firmware by V1.34. Unfortunately, no-one has replied to those.

I am still considering if I should send my camera for repair.

 

[svecher]

The market you identify "we", is a tiny fraction of a rounding error for a company like Matsushi*a. The GH1, for example, didn't rank in the top 20 DLSR/ILC cameras sold in the first half of 2010, selling under 1% of unit volume (the GF1 was 7th, with a 6.1% share). The budget "pro" indie filmmaker market is not one a company like Matsushi*a is interested in. The GH2 specs rather bear this out, no?

Another factual correction - Panasonic has lost (net income) over 570 Billion Yen since the beginning of fiscal 2009. A huge sum indeed.

Perhaps herein lies the problem. Successful high-tech companies understand that markets are not monolithic and successful ones identify key business segments and cater to each one with a specific product set. In current economic environment (which seems to be here to stay) very few companies can afford to treat niche markets as "rounding errors."
Panasonic's (Lumix division) case is interesting. On one hand, they (along with Olympus) have taken radical steps in engineering department, by inventing their own sensor size, getting rid of the mirror and all associated legacy "plumbing" (metering, autofocus sensors) that still exist on modern "Digital" SLRs. Lumix's halo model is truly the best and most-digital camera out there consumers can buy. However, they are marketing it like they would a vacuum cleaner. The times have changed. Today a "cellphone" without internet/wifi/bluetooth connectivity and no ability for some customization via "apps" or another mechanism is effectively a dinosaur. Camera business is getting there. Who will be the first to break the old business model mold and adapt to the digital era remains to be seen ...

 

[Skeptikal]

Another factual correction - Panasonic has lost (net income) over 570 Billion Yen since the beginning of fiscal 2009. A huge sum indeed.

I quess that should tell them something about their Marketing Department's strategy ...should it not?

As a personal example, I totally ignored the GH1 for a year and bought a Canon 5D2 and lots of lenses because of the 17mbps GH1 limit. Then along comes the hack. Total reversal of attitude based on my first experience with a GH13. Canon gear sold...several GH13 bodies and lenses bought.

Now they are repeating the same thing with the GH2...no 25p for PAL users; HDMI out with icons imbedded...



If it was not necessary to put 1.34 on someone's camera during repair but they did it anyway....that's disappointing.

 

[Ben_B]

If you're not planning on buying a camera in this range, I really don't have much to discuss with you on the topic. Not to say you are not an excellent DP, which I believe you are, but it seems rather frivolous.

Just because I am not gonna buy one doesn't mean I'm not gonna shoot with one.

 

[Vitaliy Kiselev]

If it was not necessary to put 1.34 on someone's camera during repair but they did it anyway....that's disappointing.

I don't think that they upgraded firmware. Most probably MB had been replaced, just in case.
All new MBs come with 1.34 preinstalled.

And as for rants about Panasonic and his actions.
Generally, they won't hear us. This is few managers fighting for their place under the sun who make such decisions. And ability to make proper decision is always hard, as it impose risk.

 

[Doppler9000]

I quess that should tell them something about their Marketing Department's strategy ...should it not?

I'm going to go with "not".

Panasonic sold over $183 billion US in fiscal 2009 and 2010. Not sure that better addressing the GH13 market would have reversed the losses. Now, if you are arguing that this bizarre and intentional crapping up of products is more widespread in the company and results in, say, vacuums that suck far less than they should and TVs that have intentionally poor pictures then you might have a point.

I suspect the losses are due more to the global recession, though, than failing the GH13 market.

By the way, what do you estimate would be the annual sales for a hacked GHx that has card reading, buffer overflow, freezing, banding, weave pattern and other reliability/performance issues? It might be fine for an indie documentary maker, but if you have a full union crew shot set up, with actors, etc., and you get a card read error, the savings on the camera compared to say, a RED, will quickly become losses. The target market for the camera wants relative ease of use and 100% bulletproof reliability - it doesn't care about ultimate bit rates - they are not making films for broadcast. The hack is very cool, but let us not confuse it with a viable consumer product.