Sennheiser G3 Lav mics in noisy retail store?

F

firehawk

Veteran
Hi. I have Sennheiser G3 wireless kits with the stock ME 2 lav mics. When recording in a walmart store during operation I notice a lot of background noise being picked up even having mic'd the talent close to their mouth for a strong voice recording. Granted it is a noisy environment between stockers, shopping carts and customers banging around. I realize many say the lav mics that come with the G3 system are not very good so what mic would you recommend to help with such a situation?
Thank you in advance for any help :)
 
Which model Countryman? We have used the EMW (or is it EWM) and it is only OK. Haven't used the B3 or B6 personally but one coworker uses some of the B6 for stage actors and has them running through a G3 system.
 
firehawk said:
Hi. I have Sennheiser G3 wireless kits with the stock ME 2 lav mics. When recording in a walmart store during operation I notice a lot of background noise being picked up even having mic'd the talent close to their mouth for a strong voice recording. Granted it is a noisy environment between stockers, shopping carts and customers banging around. I realize many say the lav mics that come with the G3 system are not very good so what mic would you recommend to help with such a situation?
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For background noise there's no "magic bullet". It's not about the level of background noise, it's about the ratio of the sound you want to record, IOW your talent's voice (the signal), to the background noise. This is the fabled signal to noise ratio, and it's determined primarily by mic placement. If you really need a better signal to noise ratio, your only real choice is placing the mic closer to the signal source. In this case, I'd be looking at an earset mic like a Countryman E6 -- place the mic right at the corner of the mouth. Since it's an earset, it can turn with talent's head and no amount of movement can take talent's mouth out of pattern, so you can (more safely) use a cardioid or hyper cardioid mic. This may further improve your signal to noise ratio, and will be about as good as you can get.

I'm just sayin' that no replacement mic for the Sennheiser SE2 is going to magically "fix" your background noise problem. Even a Sanken Cos-11d is going to have the same problem. That said, there are plenty of replacements for the SE2 that sound better. But a better signal to noise ratio is not about sound quality, it's about mic position.
 
You may have to accept the fact that if you are recording in a hostile environment, there is no magic microphone solution. Even a $1000 lav or a $5000 shotgun may not get you the signal-to-noise ratio you want.

You haven't revealed any other details about your production (scripted vs. "reality"? why you were recording during business hours? Whether you had cooperation of the venue or whether you were shooting "guerilla", etc.) so we don't know what kind of suggestions for improvement may be applicable to your situation.
 
Check the levels on the transmitter as if they are too high it may be that the radio mic is picking up more background noise and compressing it with the voice content.

A setting for normal quiet locations may not be suitable for a noisy one so drop the level at the transmitter end and increase it as the receiver or on your camera or mixer. Also make sure that you do not have any auto gain switched in at the camera.

The ME2 is still a very useable mic and I have done numerous shoots on location with demanding background noise and it performs quite well.
 
Are you sure you didn't have the auto gain setting turned on for your recorder/camera? That would bring up the background noise while your talent wasn't speaking. I've seen it happen before where that setting is buried in a menu somewhere.
 
I own a Sanken COS-11x that I rarely use because it tends to pick-up everything in the room, so I can only use it in quiet environments.

For noisy environments I use either a TRAM TR50 lav mic or an Oscar Sound Tech OST-802 lav mic, but I turn the mic's side-address capsule towards the vampire clip so that it mainly picks up sound from above or the sides, and this greatly helps to reduce the amount of ambient room noise. You would think that the mic would not function when used like this, but I guess there is enough of a gap between the mic and the vampire-clip to pick up audio from the person wearing the lav.
 
Thank you all. We were shooting with clearance from the store but during business hours, having to work around customers and employees.
I had auto gain turned off on the camera and had one channel lower for safety. I need to check the levels on the transmitter. That may be part of the problem.
I was using my least familiar camera, the fs700R and least familiar wireless
system, having only used the G3 on weddings before.

The results weren't horrible and the client is happy but I'm not and want to improve.
 
Either the Tram or OST are decent for noisy locations, but as our friend Richard stated, there will still be noise. Intelligibility is the key here, and if the viewer can 'see' the noisy environment, it should not be a problem.
FWIW, my favorite (omni) lav for noisy conditions was the 'proximity design' ECM55.. it's large size may be an issue though.
 
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I checked some things and the Transmitter was set at -30db and the receiver at 0db. So I'm trying the receiver at -12db and -6db to drop the background noise. Seems to sound a bit cleaner and I can raise it a bit on the camera.
I assume the FS700R has better preamps than the sennheiser system?
 
Rick R said:
Either the Tram or OST are decent for noisy locations, but as our friend Richard stated, there will still be noise. Intelligibility is the key here, and if the viewer can 'see' the noisy environment, it should not be a problem.
FWIW, my favorite (omni) lav for noisy conditions was the 'proximity design' ECM55.. it's large size may be an issue though.
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I have an ECM55b also. Now that you mention that, I recall it being good for noisy environments. But mine's XLR so it's not as flexible and easy to use for this type situation. And the head is bigger as you said. I need to get that out and test it again.
 
firehawk said:
I checked some things and the Transmitter was set at -30db and the receiver at 0db. So I'm trying the receiver at -12db and -6db to drop the background noise. Seems to sound a bit cleaner and I can raise it a bit on the camera.
I assume the FS700R has better preamps than the sennheiser system?
Click to expand...

The AF out on the receiver is not a pre-amp. At 0dB, the receiver's output is at its nominal level. Anything above that boosts the output level (gain, not pre-amp) and anything below attenuates the output level.

Sennheiser's documentation says that the G3 can output both mic- and line-level from the transmitter, but I learned very quickly that +12dB AF out isn't quite strong enough to drive balanced line-level input on most mixers. That results in addition of noise floor. Connecting to a mic-level in with an attenuated AF out setting yields much cleaner results.
 
Alex H. said:
The AF out on the receiver is not a pre-amp. At 0dB, the receiver's output is at its nominal level. Anything above that boosts the output level (gain, not pre-amp) and anything below attenuates the output level.

Sennheiser's documentation says that the G3 can output both mic- and line-level from the transmitter, but I learned very quickly that +12dB AF out isn't quite strong enough to drive balanced line-level input on most mixers. That results in addition of noise floor. Connecting to a mic-level in with an attenuated AF out setting yields much cleaner results.
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Thank you I didn't know that.

Bruce Watson said:
Why would you assume that? Camera makers are notorious for skimping on audio. Sony is no different.
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Thank you. Since the FS700 isn't a bottom line camera I thought it might have decent preamps but didn't know. I was hoping someone would chime in regarding this.
 
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