Sending the fs700 to sony for upgrade

epsom salt said:
ok so you genuinely don't know? it's because it appears sony did lie... sony said the fs700 will shoot 4k via firmware upgrade and r5 recorder. it will need a hardware upgrade $130-500, and a separate interface costing $2,000. so those 2 extra costs/ pieces of hardware/ burdens that come along with that will make the camera "4k ready". total is around $2300, does that clear it up for you?

so yes, i'm upset i have to send my camera in and wait for the hardware upgrade.
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You can be upset all you want but there was never any expectation last year that 4K firmware plus external recorders would be free or even cheap. If you bought the camera thinking you are buying it as cheap 4K solution, then you are an idiot. That's not Sony's fault.
 
You are just really missing the point here dude. It's laughable and I have to ask do you or anyone you know have a relative who works for Sony or something? Actually I think you get a kick out of our frustrations and do this on purpose. I'll accent the points I think we're trying to convey, maybe you'll get board and act like you see where we're coming from.

CANT YOU SEE Sony promised us a FIRMWARE UPDATE and PROPRIETARY RECORDER ...They SAID NOTHING about any HARDWARE UPGRADE or INTERFACE UNIT that we will need to achieve 4K. Forget price, we get it. It's exspensive. Who cares? What matters to SOME of us and I hope more in this world is when you sell something, sell it with the best intensions. They never would of built the camera without seeing what was instore for it. They knew we needed these things and put it out anyway NEVER mentioning ANYTHING about the extra steps it was going to take to get us to 4K. It was misleading and downright shady to protect sales. And not the sale of it's other units (like most do) it was to protect the model they are trying to unload based off of incomplete information so people don't say no thanks. Look at that boozka tube, yes I feel bad for myself and others if we have to walk around with that thing. Talk about intimidating, jeez the talent will freeze on set, there will be anti gun protests outside the studio. This is 2013, that thing looks like it's from 1983. They're Japanese for Christ sake, they take pride in honor, respect and good business practices. This my friend is no where near good business practice.
Believe it or not I can live with that. Fool me once, shame on me. Of course they needed a CD odyssey type of recorder to appease those of us who find it ridicules. It's obvious, the Sony solution is downright ridicules. So we are hoping Sony will at least unleash 10-bit recording to an external recorder in 1080p. True 10-bit S-Log. Not the weaker wrapped version 8-bit. If they did that it will certainly quiet a lot of us who feel Sony misled us from the beginning.
 
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chromeboy007 said:
Yes. This guy tested S-Log2 with internal AVCHD (and ProRes422 with Atomos), no raw. And you can see an improvement from Cine4.

https://vimeo.com/67727948
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From his Vimeo page:
FREIHEIT 21 hours ago:
i need to try some raw recording with FS700 for comparison but to me that "8bit S-Log2" is just amazing. i strongly recommend to every FS700 user for this upgrading!

8bit S-Log2 will give us fantastic highlight - midtone information, i can't go back regular PP setting once i've used S-Log2.
only my concern is "banding / tone jump" issue in shadow area. it will happen because of the 8bit. so i think we need to try to get kinda new technique for better result in lowlight shooting but to me it's gonna be fun anyway!

i'm pretty sure that raw recording will give us massively better result so hope i can get either Sony or CD recording option near future but i bet that 8bit S-Log2 is huge improvement so hope everyone get that upgrade first and have fun with it :)
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aly324 said:
Also, what about this guy? I feel bad that he's unwittingly become the poster boy of corporate greed.
View attachment 72299
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You know the more i look at this, the more fake it looks. Everything from the lighting change on the cam/recorder to the basic physics of holding it like that (it would be pretty heavy).

Also this was 'taken' how long ago, long long before we knew anything about the 4K side.

Just saying! Does anyone this guy or seen any footage?

cheers
Paul
 
evilthought said:
If you bought the camera thinking you are buying it as cheap 4K solution, then you are an idiot. That's not Sony's fault.
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wow... thanks for clearing that up and calling people names. did you even read the rest of my quote? how does your statement reply to mine in anyway? maybe it's just that i'm kind of an idiot so it's hard to understand where your deep pearls of wisdom are coming from. i know the cost of the recorder and there were some who speculated that it would be expensive. does that mean it's ok for them to keep adding hardware and running up the bill? meanwhile i'm just supposed to roll over and be ok with the fact that they advertised something completely different? ill make it a little more plain so all the non-idiots can understand my perspective.

firmware + recorder = expensive and advertised
firmware+hardware+interface+recorder=even more expensive aaaand not advertised.

but i should just take your approach and say, "it's ok guys, someone on dvxuser said it was gonna be expensive". if that's your logic as a customer than i've got a couple expensive things id absolutely love to sell you. and why are you throwing out personal attacks? i hate to echo what others have said but do you work for sony or something? if you're ok with all this extra money going to sony and less functionality/ more headache going to the user, then why are you taking differing perspectives so personal? do you even have a job or do you just sleep on a giant pile of money every night? what's the deal, the emperor obviously isn't wearing any clothes here!


Kraut69 said:
Sony will have to supply a longer viewfinder tube.
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bahahaha i can't wait to try and balance that ridiculous thing on a steadycam or pan tilt head. how bad can a massive billion dollar company ergonomically sh?t the bed? i guess that picture pretty much sums it up...
 
The "sony option" is ridiculously long and awkward. looking like the CD 7Q is the way, foregoing 120fps in RAW of course.
 
epsom salt said:
firmware + recorder = expensive and advertised
firmware+hardware+interface+recorder=even more expensive aaaand not advertised.
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Point 1 is irrelevant as the firmware turns out to be free. What if there was no hardware requirement but firmware was $ 2000? Would that have made you happy? There was never any promise the upgrade would come free.

Point 2 is also irrelevant as Sony solved that issue by licensing the 2K/4K to Convergent Design

Come back again
 
paulcurtis said:
You know the more i look at this, the more fake it looks. Everything from the lighting change on the cam/recorder to the basic physics of holding it like that (it would be pretty heavy).Paul
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This man is not shooting. He is setting up the camera. That's an Alpahtron EVF on the OTHER side of the camera. He is setting menu items on the camera's display.
When he's ready he will shoot through the EVF and it won't look nearly as whacky. At least that's what I see.
 
evilthought said:
Point 1 is irrelevant as the firmware turns out to be free. What if there was no hardware requirement but firmware was $ 2000? Would that have made you happy? There was never any promise the upgrade would come free.

Point 2 is also irrelevant as Sony solved that issue by licensing the 2K/4K to Convergent Design
Come back again
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really? dude please drop the ego. you and i have been wrong several times in our lives and that's ok. but all the lame taunting and name calling is just childish. my points hold 100% relevance simply as the actual facts of the situation. not just some hypothetical "what if's" that i've cooked up to make an argument.

point 1. just like you, of course i'd be very pissed if sony charged $2000 for a few lines of code but, it'd be what they advertised. however this is a moot point because this original sony promise actually won't work! hence this sneaky hardware upgrade from left field that is required for both cd and sony recorders. now that $2000 is only justified because it's a hardware and not a software change. but again, that need for the extra hardware wasn't communicated when we bought the camera. sony said it'd be ready for 4k via the r5 and software. that's it... end of debate. this is what they sent out and sold us, so we thought. but they, in fact "solved it" by adding more hardware out and inside of the cam to get that 4k which "justified" the extra cost of that hardware. all of which were conveniently communicated to the customers 1 year after the cameras were sold. which is the topic of discussion for the sony 4k solution...

point 2. as far as dan and cd, it looks like they came to the rescue to create a(spec wise) less powerful and less expensive "solved it". juan said sony went to multiple companies for help to bring 4k and i'm very grateful cd stepped up to help as this appears to be the most cost efficient. but, at the end of the day, none of us have seen any samples, and truth be told, if it fails in comparison to sony's recorder, well, that's what we get for not going oem. which, for oem's recorder to work... well they've failed at their promise and added more hardware in and outside the cam as well as cost. sony obviously falsely advertised and couldn't deliver without changing the guts and adding that interface. nobody is asking for this to be free but $2000 for hardware that's supposed to already be inside the fs sounds crazy to not just me, but many others. thank you, we aren't idiots, just some people who are unhappy with these charges and changes. but i'm sure some people at sony appreciate your remarks and attempts to shush our negative and absolutely warranted responses.

yes, sony has givin us multiple 4k options but that does not relieve their responsibility to give what they originally told us we bought!
 
Evilthought I appreciate you playing the Sony advocate in this thread for us to be able to discuss this but really you can stop it now. Epsom salt has a point.

And just to be clear how cheaper is the CDs option from Sony's? I don't think that there is such a difference. Is it? I haven't been up to date with the prices, but Dan's last post saying that they will try to make things as affordable as possible kinda reashures me a little that it might not be 6k+ for the whole thing.
 
if they weren't so unpleasant in their manner I would have guessed evilthought works for Sony - this lashing out at anyone who dare question anything regarding Sony has been going on for quite a while on this forum....I suggest you just ignore the evilthought
it would seem Sony does have a case to answer here - am not sure how you go about getting any straightforward answers from Sony though.....
 
Jusgorilla said:
The "sony option" is ridiculously long and awkward. looking like the CD 7Q is the way, foregoing 120fps in RAW of course.
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Dear Justin,

Our Odyssey7Q with our extra cost option that supports the FS700,
and two of our SSD's, one can record 2K Raw, in Cinema DNG,
in 12-Bit Linear, at up to 240 frames per second, continuously (until the SSD's are full).

And we can record 4K, uncompressed, in DPX file format, in 12-Bit Linear, up to 30 frames per second.

Maybe later we will be able to record 4K Raw, in 12-Bit Linear, up to 60 frames per second,
but we will need approval from Sony before we can accomplish this.

You did not mention whether the 120 fps was in 2K or 4k.

We can certainly record 2K Raw, in Cinema DNG, in 12-Bit Linear, at 120 fps, to just one of our SSD's.

Background Info:

The upgraded FS700's maximum frame rate in 4K is 60 fps.


I hope this helps.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
epsom salt said:
point 2. as far as dan and cd, it looks like they came to the rescue to create a(spec wise) less powerful and less expensive "solved it". juan said sony went to multiple companies for help to bring 4k and i'm very grateful cd stepped up to help as this appears to be the most cost efficient. but, at the end of the day, none of us have seen any samples, and truth be told, if it fails in comparison to sony's recorder, well, that's what we get for not going oem. which, for oem's recorder to work...
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Dear Friends,

While the Odyssey7Q is currently limited to recording 4K in uncompressed at 30 fps, as opposed to recording 4K Raw at 60 fps, there is no technical limitation in the Odyssey7Q that prevents this.

This is restricted by our written agreement with Sony and we will abide by this limitation as long as this restriction is in effect.
In fact, we are honored to be working this closely with Sony.

So, for now, the Sony Interface + R5 recorder has an advantage when one wants to record 4K Raw, and when one wants to record 4K at 60 fps.

For 2K, both units, ours and Sony's can both record 2K Raw up to 240 fps.

Our advantages are that we provide a 7.7" diagonal OLED Monitor, with great image analysis tools, Focus Assist, Waveform Monitor, RGB Parade, Histogram, Color Vectorscope, Zebras, Onion Skinning and more, in a 1.2 pound system that can be positioned anywhere where one wants to mount a monitor.

And our overall cost is substantially less.

We are working on providing samples as soon as possible. We loaned out an upgraded FS700 + Odyssey7Q recently just for that purpose.

As soon as we can post the files, I will make a post on this forum.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Dan Keaton said:
Our advantages are that we provide a 7.7" diagonal OLED Monitor, with great image analysis tools, Focus Assist, Waveform Monitor, RGB Parade, Histogram, Color Vectorscope, Zebras, Onion Skinning and more, in a 1.2 pound system that can be positioned anywhere where one wants to mount a monitor.

Convergent Design
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i love that OD7Q comes with onion skinning!!

thank you Convergent Design! thank you thank you...
 
Dear Freiheit,

It is very nice to hear that you appreciate our Onion Skinning feature. Another term for this "Reference Frame" display.

For others, I will explain this feature.

1. One can select a reference frame from any footage previously recorded on the Odyssey7 or Odyssey7Q.

2. Then, using an Odyssey7Q, one can show live video + the selected reference frame with varying opacity.

This allows one to precisely setup a camera, lens, etc to exactly the same position and setup as previously,
and also re-position every item in the scene exactly as it was earlier.

One will be able to send the Onion Screen image to an external monitor, so that the person re-positioning every item on the set can do it easily and quickly without the camera operator having the guide the set dresser.

This is a very powerful feature.


We have working, at this time, great focus assist (3 modes with various options), waveform monitor, RGB Parade, Zebras, histogram, and color vectorscope.

We have a few enhancements to make on the above features, such as adding the graticule and zooming on the color vectorscope.

(The graticule is the fixed pattern, displayed on the color vectorscope that show where each color is supposed to be.)

As soon as possible we will start working on the Onion Skinning feature.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
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