SD302 to Camera and PMD661

SonicPadawan

SonicPadawan

Member
Greetings,

I've recently (and finally) made the jump to a field mixer and digital recorder that I've wanted for years. Up until now I've recorded straight to camera, which has served me well. Now that I have the ENG style setup and want to record two channels to camera as I'm accustomed to as well as having the redundancy of recording two channels to my Marantz PMD661 recorder. B&H has a great little video on this setup and mentions the desire and benefit of this redundancy, but doesn't show you how exactly that's done.

I've done search after search on this and the only solution I could find comes with a problem, and that's the TA3 tape level connection out of the 302 split into two XLR connectors. The problem being the out of the 302 is "tape level" of -15 dBu which is a mismatch to the line level input of the PMD661. I've failed to come to a proper solution.

Could someone shed light on how to record simultaneously to the camera and recorder?

Thank you.
 
the only solution would be "tape out".

Or left out to camera and right out to recorder... but then it's better to use only one mice
 
From what I can see in the user manuals:

You would use the XLR outs of the 302 (which are preset to line level) to go to the XLR inputs of the PMD661 (which you would have to change from mic to line level) and the tape/mix out of the SD302 to the line in of the camera.

OR

You would use the XLR outs of the SD302 to go to the PMD661 and the line out of the PMD661 to the line in of the camera.
 
SonicPadawan said:
Greetings,

I've recently (and finally) made the jump to a field mixer and digital recorder that I've wanted for years. Up until now I've recorded straight to camera, which has served me well. Now that I have the ENG style setup and want to record two channels to camera as I'm accustomed to as well as having the redundancy of recording two channels to my Marantz PMD661 recorder. B&H has a great little video on this setup and mentions the desire and benefit of this redundancy, but doesn't show you how exactly that's done.

I've done search after search on this and the only solution I could find comes with a problem, and that's the TA3 tape level connection out of the 302 split into two XLR connectors. The problem being the out of the 302 is "tape level" of -15 dBu which is a mismatch to the line level input of the PMD661. I've failed to come to a proper solution.

Could someone shed light on how to record simultaneously to the camera and recorder?

Thank you.
Click to expand...

You didn't mention the camera but you could send the 302's main outs to the recorder while sending the tape out to the camera using this adapter ... http://www.trewaudio.ca/store/product.php?productid=194&cat=25&page=3
 
Gohanto said:
Any reason an XLR splitter wouldn't work?
Click to expand...

Yes indeed, why wouldn't it? I suppose I have a mental block to that notion as it being "crude" and surely there's a "cleaner" way of doing it. If all else fails, I suppose there is that.

In a related note, please see my next post.
 
Steve House said:
You didn't mention the camera but you could send the 302's main outs to the recorder while sending the tape out to the camera using this adapter ... http://www.trewaudio.ca/store/product.php?productid=194&cat=25&page=3
Click to expand...
The camera I'm accustomed to interfacing with is (not surprisingly) the DVX-100A. This time around it's the Sony HVR-Z1U. I just set the inputs to Line Level and I'm good to go from the SD302, it's trying to add the digital recorder that I seem to trip up.

In the video I linked, right about 0:45, it's mentioned that the job of the mixer is to mix multiple sources and send them to your field recorder and to the camera. While they show cables being plugged into the recorder and the camera, they don't show how the three devices are connected together. *sigh*

Just before the holidays I ordered the cable you kindly linked above. That's when I discovered a level mismatch between the interfaces. Now, I'm still trying to wrap my head around certain audio specs, but as I understand it the 302's Tape/Mix Out is at a fixed -15 dBu. It's also my understanding that line level is +4 dBu and Mic Level is -40 dBu, which are big mismatches and could cause problems, no?

With all that said, I just can't figure a good solution. Although Gohanto makes a good point about a simple Y-Splitter.
 
SonicPadawan said:
...
Just before the holidays I ordered the cable you kindly linked above. That's when I discovered a level mismatch between the interfaces. Now, I'm still trying to wrap my head around certain audio specs, but as I understand it the 302's Tape/Mix Out is at a fixed -15 dBu. It's also my understanding that line level is +4 dBu and Mic Level is -40 dBu, which are big mismatches and could cause problems, no?

With all that said, I just can't figure a good solution. Although Gohanto makes a good point about a simple Y-Splitter.
Click to expand...

Most of the time the 302's main outs would go to the primary recording device and the tape out to a backup.

What is confusing is there are TWO definitions of line level. Most consumer and prosumer gear defines nominal line level is -10dBv while most pro gear defines it as +4dBu. Note the "v" and the "u" are slightly different units so the difference between the two is closer to 12dB rather than the 14dB you might expect from simple arithmetic.

Don't know why SD chose -15dBu (~-18dBv) as the nominal level for the tape out and also note that 0VU on the 302's meter corresponds to 0dBu output, not +4dBu.
 
I have the same equipment and have been working on the same issue. I did use a Y cable from the xlr outs. One feed going to the xlrs of the camera and the other going to the breakaway snake to the camera. Its a little clunky but seemed to work fine. The video you linked to is actually very clear on the point that they are using the xlrs to feed signal to the camera. That only leaves the tape out to send to the recorder. For ease of use in the bag I would opt for a right angle 1/8th inch input to go to the recorder fed by the tape out. I'm going to build one when I get a chance. I have one already but its padded to mic level so that won't work. I'm pretty sure it would be easy enough to pad the -15 down to the appropriate level so you get a good match into the recorder. You're really only talking about at most 5db of signal so it may not even need to be padded down.
Check with a dealer like Trew audio to see what they recommend.
Best,
Bernie
 
unclebob6958 said:
From what I can see in the user manuals:

You would use the XLR outs of the 302 (which are preset to line level) to go to the XLR inputs of the PMD661 (which you would have to change from mic to line level) and the tape/mix out of the SD302 to the line in of the camera.

OR

You would use the XLR outs of the SD302 to go to the PMD661 and the line out of the PMD661 to the line in of the camera.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't recommend this approach because the line outs on the recorder are unbalanced RCA jacks, and the tape out on the 302 is unbalanced as well. In both cases they are consumer line not, not pro line out and aside from the clunknesss of the connections they may not match the line in of the camera very well.
Best,
Bernie
 
I have run a similar set up but with different gear. I had 2 audio sources (B6 via G2 wireless, and RODE NTG-1 via XLR) into a Sign Video ENG-44 mixer. XLR outputs ran to the HVX at line level. I then had a Zoom H2 plugged in to the mic level tape output using a 1/8th inch male/male cable. It is nice having the H2 as a back up just in case and I am very happy with the results compared to running everything straight to the camera with no mixer. It sounded OK before but it is much better now.

Cole
 
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