SD 442 settings & levels questions

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nick_m_777

Member
Sorry if these are dumb questions...can't seem to find/understand a conclusive answer in the manual, Jay Rose's (excellent) book or elsewhere and figured there is no sense in reinventing the wheel.

1 - For running audio into my HVX200 from the 442, what is the preferred threshold for the output limiters? And how about for running into an SD 722? The options are +4 dBu to +20 dBu.

2 - I am having difficulty figuring out the proper setting for the VU reference meter (Selects 0 VU to dBu reference). Which setting would you recommend for running into the HVX 200? How about an SD 722?

Here are the options:

  • 0 VU = 0 dBu
  • 0 VU = +4 dBu
  • 0 VU = +8 dBu
  • 0 VU/Peak = +1 dBu
  • 0 VU/Peak = +2 dBu
  • 0 VU/Peak = +3 dBu
  • 0 VU/Peak = +4 dBu
  • 0 VU/ Peak = +5 dBu
  • 0 VU/Peak = +6 dBu
  • 0 VU/Peak = +7 dBu
  • 0 VU/0 Peak = +8 dBu
3 - Then after dialing in the proper settings, is it helpful to use tone for setting my camera or 722 levels? If so, what level of tone? Or is it better to just have my subject speak and set the camera levels that way?

Any advice you have on setting this up would be much appreciated.
 
Hi nick, considering i've never seen any sound devices equipment or an HVX200, i'm possibly not the best person to make suggestions. But to get the ball rolling, there are certain standards that i presume these equipment meet.

Set your lineup tone to
0VU=0dBu (Europe)
0VU=+4dBu (USA)

Use your tone to calibrate your camera/recorder such that for material which might have unexpected peaks
0VU=-20dBfs (Europe)
0VU=-18dBfs (USA)

Use your tone to calibrate your camera/recorder such that for material in a controlled, reasonably steady environment
0VU=-12dBfs (Europe)
0VU=-12dBfs (USA)

Adjust your channel fader to keep the average level around this 0VU reference

In all cases, never let the level exceed -2dBfs.
Remember that VU meters react slower than peak meters and may not show excessive peaks.
Depending on the attack time of the limiter, set no higher than -6dBfs

Rob Finch
SQN
 
Last edited:
Here is what ive used flawlessly for years.

Line level out of the 442 into Line level on the camera.
0 VU = 0 dBu
Tone on the camera set to the first hash mark (-20)
Output limiters set to +12 on the 442.
I run my levels on the 442 so I'm hitting the limiters gently occasionally.
 
Rippie said:
Here is what ive used flawlessly for years.

Line level out of the 442 into Line level on the camera.
0 VU = 0 dBu
Tone on the camera set to the first hash mark (-20)
Output limiters set to +12 on the 442.
I run my levels on the 442 so I'm hitting the limiters gently occasionally.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Very helpful.

So your tone on the 442 is set to -20 and you run that into the camera at line level and adjust the volume controls on the camera until the -20 tone from the 442 hits the first hash mark on the camera's meter? I assume the "first" hash mark would be the bottom one (also the lowest one)?

I am curious as to what effect it would have to set the limiters to +18 or +20. Is it that they are less gentle at the higher setting? Or is it just a matter of utilizing a larger portion of the meter by peaking out up to +18?
 
nick_m_777 said:
Thanks! Very helpful.

So your tone on the 442 is set to -20 and you run that into the camera at line level and adjust the volume controls on the camera until the -20 tone from the 442 hits the first hash mark on the camera's meter? I assume the "first" hash mark would be the bottom one (also the lowest one)?

I am curious as to what effect it would have to set the limiters to +18 or +20. Is it that they are less gentle at the higher setting? Or is it just a matter of utilizing a larger portion of the meter by peaking out up to +18?
Click to expand...

No. Tone on the 442 is at ZERO.
line that up to the lower (the one on the left) hash mark which is -20 on the camera.

In my case, putting the limiters to +12 and hitting them occasionally
puts my levels right in the pocket on where every single client I work with likes them.

Some people work with the theory of putting the levels to the extreme highest they can. I personally like to work closer to broadcast standards and
standards I know most post production suites can handle.

I find it unproductive to push my mixer's pre amp's and output levels
when in the end post is going to have to deliver at a lower volume than -2
anyway.

I feel peaking at a -10, -8 in the lower end cameras and certainly in the higher end cameras gives a nice strong signal to work with.

Some mixers out there feel that they should deliver the absolute hottest
signal they can and its posts problem to deal with it.
While in some ways they are correct, I just dont happen to agree.
 
Excellent! Many thanks for the help Rippie. I follow what you are saying now. Setting my 0 tone at -20 on the camera means that when I peak out and engage the +12 limiters on my 442, the levels will be -8 on the camera--right about where they should be. Makes sense.
 
Rippie said:
Some mixers out there feel that they should deliver the absolute hottest
signal they can and its posts problem to deal with it.
While in some ways they are correct, I just dont happen to agree.
Click to expand...

Just curious, but I've never had a problem with dialog tracks being recorded higher (so long as they aren't clipping).

Any idea what issues people have had?
 
Gohanto said:
Just curious, but I've never had a problem with dialog tracks being recorded higher (so long as they aren't clipping).

Any idea what issues people have had?
Click to expand...

I could get into a big laundry list of things ive seen editors do through the years.
From not adjusting any sound levels in post (what I give them is EXACTLY what is in the final product)
to split audio tracks going out over the air still split! (unbelievable)
Ive walked into edit suites where in less than 3 seconds I noticed "hey your speakers are out of phase", and this guy had been working in that edit
room for YEARS. Mixes must have been way off for years.
I know of editors speaker setups distorting because hot levels being outputted were cliping their amps..
And of course dont get me started on Live Sat feeds..

etc..etc..etc.
(the not so funny part is Im not talking about novice amature editors here)

Sure if I KNOW its going through audio post I could get away with hotter,
but its always going through the video editors suite first so I just
keep it simple. My levels are consistantly in the same range rather extreme lows, and extreme highs.

Even if I'm doing a film since I'm recording to a 24bit recorder im even less
concerned about getting every single ounce of level out of the machine.

As I mentioned in my original post a lot of people work my way..but others choose to go the other route.

Sometimes we have to protect people from themselves.
 
Informative thread guys, thanks for posting.

I have a question I'm hoping Rippie can answer. Do Schoeps CMC641's require more gain from the mixer? My first time using the combo, trim was all the way up and the boom was 18" from the talent. The levels were still low. Is this normal?

Any examples of unusual environments where you needed to change the 442 settings?
 
Both of my schoeps have a +5db hotter output compared to the regular version.
With these I always put my trim/gain at 3oclock and the fader (pot)
at unity or up to 2oclock.

I can imagine the regular output you'd probably have your trim closer to 4oclock or even a bit higher. If you want to mod your schoeps is a very easy process if you
comfortable with a soldering iron.

for reference my 2nd main mic which is a sanken cs3e the trim
is usually about 1 oclock.

As far as your 2nd question..
I really don't understand the question.
 
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