scoring Vs. Dof low bugdet!!!

B

Burn2Earn pro.

Well-known member
I'm nearing the end of my budget and I'm trying to decide what is more important now to have equipment to score the film with or a dof adapter... I understand the importance of both but can't afford both so I'm stuck to make this unfortunate decision... any input would be helpfull. :thumbup:
 
If I were in your position, I would choose the score over the DOF adapter. In the end, the score will probably have a greater overall impact on your film than DOF, and, unless the style really calls for it, super-shallow DOF isn't always necessary.
 
Put your money towards the sound of your project - the production sound, the audio post and the score. Amateur sound means an amateur project, no matter how pretty the pictures.
 
Definitely the sound. The adapter would do very little, as much as many people love them, compared to that.
 
IMO: rent an adapter for the shots that require shallow focus. These are shots were the subject needs to be seperated from the background to focus audience attention on the subject so nuiances come through, or to convey a sense of isolation and loneliness, or to subdue an unattractive background. This notion that it makes it look like film, and that's the reason to use it is not getting the point. Using it appropriately will be helpful. Most often no one thinks about the dramatic need, instead they're on automatic and think every shot has to have shallow focus. That is really bad film making: most probably it's just another development phase of some kid with a camera pretending to be something he has no real intention of working at.

Score, if done properly can lift your story up into a wonderful emotional experience and put in all the cues to help your audience connect and "get it." If done wrong it puts your nice story on par with a porno or an el'cheapo productions "special of the week." Scoring takes serious musical talent and often requires years of study to become adequate. If you don't have musical talent then you must hire someone who will not torture the audience.If your question is about buying tools to produce these effects it may be more economical & strategic to rent the adapter and hire a film scoring composer to create what your story needs to set it apart from the rest. There are talented aspiring composers looking for work to build their resume. They might complete the score for less than the price of the gear.

I'll take it you have post audion editing down: dialogue editing, foley, etc... everything needed to complete the cinematic illusion. Most folks never go this far with their small productions and it shows. The story suffers because of this omission: so consider the tasks post audio requires.

It all comes down to what you're really after, gear or an engaging movie. Both choices are acceptable but may have widely varying results.
 
You can probably get both within the same budget. You're on DVXuser, you should be able to Pm someone to let you rent an adapter (a GOOD adapter) on your budget and still have money leftover to hire out for sound.
 
Okay, do you know music theory? Have you written scores before? Do you know what software/hardware you're looking for?

James Horner with 18 keys off a piano could almost certainly make something much better than I could with unlimited gear and loops. Hence why when I'm making movies, I find someone with a real passion and talent for film music.

If you want to start a career in music, go for music gear. If you want to be a DP, a DoF adapter would be great. Best of both worlds is renting a DoF adapter (or finding a DP that already owns one) and paying someone to write music.

10s said:
IMO: rent an adapter for the shots that require shallow focus.
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That doesn't really work. It's painfully obvious when an adapter is only used as some shots. If you want an adapter, use it for the entire shoot.
 
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Definitely agree with what others have said...

Is this a short, or a feature?

If this is a short film, you should be able to get a composer to do it for free or very cheap. Even fairly experienced ones if the film is good....it just comes down to how you present yourself and your film. If it's a feature then you probably don't want to be asking composers to slave for months for free. But short films are quick jobs and great for the reel.

Otherwise what Kholi said -- borrow/rent one off someone here! You can probably get a sweet hook up.
 
Burn2Earn pro. said:
I'm nearing the end of my budget and I'm trying to decide what is more important now to have equipment to score the film with or a dof adapter... I understand the importance of both but can't afford both so I'm stuck to make this unfortunate decision... any input would be helpfull. :thumbup:
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In looking at the various offerings here and elsewhere of short films, I have come to the deciscion never (or almost never) to even contemplate using an adapter on a camera. Many film film classics were shot with very deep focus, and how the cinematographer obtained image 'depth' was by lighting subject position relative to background, and gosh... considered what background led to better separation...

Hence, my decision would be for sound equipment... because... most of the short film offerings fail due to either poor lighting or bad sound... neither of which can be corrected by a DoF adapter...
 
I agree with what everone is saying.... I wouldn't shoot just some shots with a dof adapter.. I would def. film the whole thin with it...some are saying to go with hiring a composer and maybe that is the route to go... but I feel anybody that is a good composer isn't going to do it for free , and any that would do it for free maybe are just starting out and if that is the case why not just score it your self.. at least I'll have the equipment to learn with.
 
I assume you're not already a musician or composer, you haven't really said you are.

The difference between you (again, I assume) and a composer 'just starting out' is that the composer is likely to have many years of musical background and has probably been composing, if even just for fun, for some time. You're starting at or near square one. Even as a so-called beginner, that composer has a good head start on you.

Just like a $20,000 camera isn't going to be a wise investment for someone without any skill / experience as a filmmaker, you can't just buy a keyboard and some libraries and expect to produce a good score.
 
Burn2Earn pro. said:
I agree with what everone is saying.... I wouldn't shoot just some shots with a dof adapter.. I would def. film the whole thin with it...some are saying to go with hiring a composer and maybe that is the route to go... but I feel anybody that is a good composer isn't going to do it for free , and any that would do it for free maybe are just starting out and if that is the case why not just score it your self.. at least I'll have the equipment to learn with.
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I love gear, but Gear isn't the answer: knowledge, skill & creativity is. On the other hand, it doesn't hurt to have some gear around to fiddle around on. :smile:

If you want the gear to play around on, get it! -- just don't expect any cinematic miracles to appear for the next few years while you learn.
 
Burn2Earn pro. said:
I agree with what everone is saying.... I wouldn't shoot just some shots with a dof adapter.. I would def. film the whole thin with it...some are saying to go with hiring a composer and maybe that is the route to go... but I feel anybody that is a good composer isn't going to do it for free , and any that would do it for free maybe are just starting out and if that is the case why not just score it your self.. at least I'll have the equipment to learn with.
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That's far from the truth as there are many excellent composers that work for free and produce excellent results. And aside from the skills and talent, when you're dealing with music sometimes having an unbiased set of hears can really help a great deal.

Just curious though, since both of the things you're looking at are rather specialized, what do you currently have planned for in terms of a dolly, mic, blimp, mixer, filters, grip gear, camera, lights, ect...
 
As a Letus owner, I think 35mm adapters are totally overrated and abused. Too many newbies shooting with 1.4 and 1.2 lenses wide open for their entire project, it looks lamer than 1/3" CCD infinite depth of field. I have seen very few adapter projects where a tasteful and talented DP has used the adapter in the proper way, as an accent to be used subtley, not a lame effect for the whole show.

Score all of the way. Shallow DOF is massively overrated.

Dan
 
shooting with the HVX200 , Rode NTG2 , over 5000 watts of light , shoulder stabilizers , flycams , 4 filters , enough cords to plug into china.... lol... diffusers , stands , track dolly , gels.. I got a good amount of equipment to film this already... I'm pretty much at the end of my budget and I'm at a decision if I wanted to do either of these things... which one would it be.


I haven't had any opportunity with either one... I've made some music in the past but I never had equipment to keep up with it... now I have the chance to buy some equipment and I would like to learn how to score a film... but I would also like to start messing with lens and adapters ... I'm going to do wich ever benifits me more.
 
I'm going to second Dan on the overuse... it's not the adapters that are overused... it's the whole DOF thing. It's kind of sad that folks refer to them as "DOF adapters" instead of "35mm adapters." What they offer, aside from shallow focus, is a very nice selection of glass for cameras that wouldn't normally have them. Plus, the vibrating/spinning GG gives a really pleasing texture that can emulate both film grain and gate. The most stunning footage I've seen from 35mm adapters features deep focus.

If you aren't experienced at scoring, you might find your budget better fit to finding a composer for hire. As previously mentioned, you might find some one to score pro bono for an independent short, but you might also need to pay. Having "made a little music" in the past may or may not get you far in scoring your own film. Since I'm not familiar with your music abilities, I can't say for sure... but that's something you need to evaluate.

So which way to go? I think you need to take care of your score first to make sure you have the best resource you can find... then evaluate where you are. If you've found a composer who will work for little/no compensation, then you might still consider an adapter (just please keep the shallow focus intentional and minimal). If you feel confident that you can do it your self, you'll need the equipment to do it (ProTools, a MIDI keyboard, a decent pre-amp and a good mic or two).
 
Burn2Earn pro. said:
does anyone here score their own film?... or does everyone use a composer?
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I don't know many folks who do. Of course, that's how Jack Johnson got his start... he began writing his own music to score his surf films.

I'm sure there are a couple of members here who might, but because it takes such a specialized skill set, they're few and far between.

Now, there are lots of folks who have started sequencing (loops) with STP or Garageband to create their own scores... mostly beginner/no-budget stuff. Carefully sequenced loops work very well, but poorly sequenced loops can be painful... and obvious.
 
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