Scarlett is B.S!!!!!!

L

larryfine451

Active member
OK ,Now I have your attention(LOL!)

I want to take a trip back from dreamland of Scarlett and those waiting for it to a trip back to earth and logistical reality.

First RED did launch their RED camera and my hats off to them on this achievement.
This fledgling company was able to produce a camera body for $17,500 which when kitted out to run probably costs $40,000....pretty rarified air

Not having privy to sales and support, lets enthusiastically estimate sales max to be 100 plus to date with back orders etc. Now step back and think of the logistics of support for this equipment ,people facilities, time, capital expenditures.

Now....... think about selling something for $3000 .....manufacturing now must scale up signifigantly while keep quality control .Sales ...100's quicky.. probably 1000's Think of the logistics of supporting this and the capital expenditures required for ... servicing etc.....

Seems to me if any thing goes wrong with Scarlett Red would have a massive fiscal issues on their hands very quicky...is it any wonder they are taking their time releasing this thing .

In the mean time the big boys Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, etc while perfectly capable of producing a "scarlett" just keep upping the game with frequent video DSLR remakes which acomplishes 2 tasks .

1) milking every last possible sales dollar

2)reducing Scarlet's possible market share .

Soon it will be gone from high end consumers eyes completely because on its release it will certainly not be available to mere mortals without probably a years waiting time.
And so it will be left for us us lunatic fringe who are willing to put up our money and wait .
BUT if you think it through that Could be the BEST thing to happen to RED as going TOO BIG TOO FAST could and most likely wiil be their biggest enemy....

larry
 
larryfine451 said:
Not having privy to sales and support, lets enthusiastically estimate sales max to be 100 plus to date with back orders etc. Now step back and think of the logistics of support for this equipment ,people facilities, time, capital expenditures.
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You don't even have privy to LOGIC.

A basic internet search will show you that the latest serial numbers being shipped for the RED One are in the 6800s.

You fail.
 
Man, I hate it when Matt drops the logic on posts like this. It just derails what would have been an entertaining, if completely humiliating for the OP, thread.
 
Um yeah- that's a pretty unfounded rant. Do a little research next time out. :) For example:

If everything goes according to plan, the scarlet's/epic's are targeted to be realesed in late October/November of this year with the Epic X and the 3K scarlets coming out first.

Straight from the mouth of Ted:

http://www.fxguide.com/redcentre

click on #043, it's just slightly passed the half way point.

Again this is still just a target date, but at least it's something. If this has already been posted then sorry for re-posting.
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Noah
 
Yes I posted a nearly identical rant on this and REDuser in June. Good to know that smart biz people do think alike :engel017:

larryfine451 said:
OK ,Now I have your attention(LOL!)

I want to take a trip back from dreamland of Scarlett and those waiting for it to a trip back to earth and logistical reality.

First RED did launch their RED camera and my hats off to them on this achievement.
This fledgling company was able to produce a camera body for $17,500 which when kitted out to run probably costs $40,000....pretty rarified air

Not having privy to sales and support, lets enthusiastically estimate sales max to be 100 plus to date with back orders etc. Now step back and think of the logistics of support for this equipment ,people facilities, time, capital expenditures.

Now....... think about selling something for $3000 .....manufacturing now must scale up signifigantly while keep quality control .Sales ...100's quicky.. probably 1000's Think of the logistics of supporting this and the capital expenditures required for ... servicing etc.....

Seems to me if any thing goes wrong with Scarlett Red would have a massive fiscal issues on their hands very quicky...is it any wonder they are taking their time releasing this thing .

In the mean time the big boys Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, etc while perfectly capable of producing a "scarlett" just keep upping the game with frequent video DSLR remakes which acomplishes 2 tasks .

1) milking every last possible sales dollar

2)reducing Scarlet's possible market share .

Soon it will be gone from high end consumers eyes completely because on its release it will certainly not be available to mere mortals without probably a years waiting time.
And so it will be left for us us lunatic fringe who are willing to put up our money and wait .
BUT if you think it through that Could be the BEST thing to happen to RED as going TOO BIG TOO FAST could and most likely wiil be their biggest enemy....

larry
Click to expand...
 
mcgeedigital said:
You don't even have privy to LOGIC.

A basic internet search will show you that the latest serial numbers being shipped for the RED One are in the 6800s.

You fail.
Click to expand...

Not to sound rude, but I'll bet $1,000 you can't come up with the names of 6800 RED owners.
 
Hmmm. It's amazing when someone who speculates on an interesting, albiet different point of view gets flamed immediately.

Getting back from cameras, and also acknowledging that all things are never equal. The OP
COULD be correct in his assessment. MANY companies, and usually startups have gone broke expanding too fast. I also think it's not the best sign when the company motto, "Obsolesence Obsolete," inspires a herd of people to put down a deposit, and wait over a year past the promised delivery date, only to find that less than two years after the announcement, let alone delivery, of the RED ONE, the company is planning two new lines that directly compete with the original camera.

Granted they offer a nice upgrade plan, but the EPIC still costs another 17000+ USD after the credit from the returned RED ONE.

I think aside from the details, the OP is trying to look at their business from a different angle.

I happen to agree with the overall idea, too. red ray, red rocket, epic, scarlet, which are all modular and therefore likely require more manufacturing lines. Meanwhile RED ONE users are still dealing with crashes, and overheating.

Many red fanboys on reduser are upset that Red is spending so much effort on new releases when they haven't even gotten the red one right yet.

I think these are all signs that the company IS moving too fast. The only problem is that they have to.

Canon and Panasonic are a master quality compression scheme away from scarlet's of their own. Also they have bigger sensors, for less money. All they would need to do is release an HDSLR right now with live HDMI 10-bit 4:2:2, and a customer could add a nanoflash for near HDCAM SR quality (it's generally agreed that the new Sony DSP is between HDCAM and HDCAM SR quality, and closer to HDCAM SR, visually).

Don't get me wrong, if Scarlet came out tomorrow with their posted specs, I'd buy one in a heartbeat, but I'm not a fanboy. I don't care what company it is, I want the best product for the best value, and the best tool for me.

My post has gotten a little muddied up, but you know what, there's plenty of room for rants, and the main point is that RED is not perfect, and those who love the company the most would be wise to critique their practices, if they are detrimental to the long term solvency.

As far as I know they are not a public company, there's no 10-q to see their earnings, and if GM can go to the brink of being out of business, then a startup trying to take on the world must be very careful.
 
arrestthisman said:
Canon and Panasonic are a master quality compression scheme away from scarlet's of their own.
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Panasonic's already got one, with AVC-Intra... if they'd slap that on Ben's GHX100, that'd be interesting.

Canon hasn't ever forayed into their own codec development as far as I know, although they did sort of modify HDV. I'd be pretty happy with it if they'd just implement a full-power version of AVCHD, at least at this price point.

Also they have bigger sensors, for less money. All they would need to do is release an HDSLR right now with live HDMI 10-bit 4:2:2, and a customer could add a nanoflash for near HDCAM SR quality (it's generally agreed that the new Sony DSP is between HDCAM and HDCAM SR quality, and closer to HDCAM SR, visually).
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Agreed. However, there's way more to a camera (or a complete camera system, I should say) than a sensor and an HDMI port. Those who recognize that, will probably be very much anticipating a full cine camera like the Scarlet or a full video camera like the EX1/HPX170. Those who value price above all else and will work around any obstacle for that low price, will be more attracted to the insanely cheap DSLRs.

As far as I know they are not a public company, there's no 10-q to see their earnings, and if GM can go to the brink of being out of business, then a startup trying to take on the world must be very careful.
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Yes, but their founder has a little bit of business acumen (massive understatement). I doubt that Red will be run off course by mismanagement due to inexperience.
 
As always, all common sense from Barry :)

Regarding RED's business fragility, I don't think they would go out of business due to inexperience. Using GM as an example was a poor analogy because they dug their own grave. I'm thinking more along the lines of catastrophic American economic climate. Because of the diversity of Panny and Sony, if one branch is wiped out, or even a country, they have the whole world. One could say the same for RED, they could sell to foreign markets, I just think they'd have to paddle upstream a bit harder than global companies. I acknowledge that this is total speculation, and I could be WAY off.

And, of course there is more to a camera system than the sensor and output. But, I think we've all witnessed breakthrough cameras at low price points that all seem to have an Achilles heel. The EX-1 for example is a dream, practically a mini-red, except for the codec! (granted its implementation is way better than it has a right to be at 35mbits/sec.)

It seems that RED has kind of hit the nail on the head with what most digital cinematographers want. Specs aside, freedom of lenses, high resolution, and the most mailability in post possible for the given system looks like where the direction is going.

A properly downscaled HDSLR's 1080p output with a robust codec would get people somewhat close to that, in a smaller, much cheaper package. Different animals, but closer than what we have now at two completely different price points.

Also with tech moving so fast, I don't see anything wrong with those who chose to ride the low end. A person or company who invests in an HPX3700 is two years or less from a better product at an equal or lower price point. This is the way it is. I don't think it'll change anytime soon or maybe ever. Different than the film world where some seek out 25 year old cameras on purpose.

I think it kind of comes down to people who like to own their own equipment. We want the absolute best value, and the best picture we can afford.

I was sitting on my deck today watching the sunset, and the lake, and it kind of clicked; I realized the motive of compulsion of the tech. (At least for me.) If I was able to record the most beautiful sunset I've ever seen, I'd want it to have as much visual glory in 20 years or more as it does now.

Making movies or content of any kind is VERY hard. Of course you'd want it to look as great as possible, not just now, but in the future. And it's a losing game because photography of all kinds will always get better. And who knows, in 200 years movies may be completely usurped by other entertainment medium(s).

I think I've gone on an tangent here, and I apologize for that. But as someone who is as interested in tech as content itself, it's important. Our selection of tools are awesome as is, though. But civil debate over the direction of what we call progress is always fun.
 
Larry,
ranting for rants sake? I have # 5252 and there's probably at least a 100 RED productions going on in NYC alone as we speak. Customer service has been good - not great. But they're not stupid and I'm sure are planning to meet demand. Red's are so ubiquitous that people who bought it for rental alone are getting burned left and right. My HVX is much more profitable from a purchase / rental ratio. I can still get 380.00 full package with sticks. With RED people won't pay more than 1200.00 with full glass for something that runs at least five times more.

Luckily the RED goes out with either me or a business partner enough to float its boat. When Scarlet comes out, it'll probably put the lights out on most low to mid end cameras. Panasonic better act soon with a 35mm imager. The new paradigm is up and it's not going to be super expensive. RED has pretty much turned the acquisition and rental markets on their heads. In NYC it saved alot of rental houses because they had all the glass and accessories. Bodies made little money anyway. Now that new and cheaper glass is out, you'll see another shift.
 
i don't know how many people on here follow reduser but here is a quote from jim jannard:

Details of the release schedule for EPIC and Scarlet coming sometime in October. We are taking our time so you won't be disappointed.

Jim
 
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I think cameras are getting to be like computers.

You can order the newest laptop the day after it was released, and buy the time FedEx drops it off at your house, something better has already been announced.

You buy what is good for you today today, and you buy what is good for you in the future in the future.

Getting pissed off at a company that has fewer employees than your local high school because they announced a camera at a crazy low price with great features and are taking a long time to make a reality is a waste of energy.

I think one of the best things I ever did was put all my excitement about the Scarlet on pause after the big Red announcement last year. The Scarlet will come out or it won't, either way I'm not going to really think much about it until they start taking pre-orders & shipping units.
 
I think one of the best things I ever did was put all my excitement about the Scarlet on pause after the big Red announcement last year. The Scarlet will come out or it won't, either way I'm not going to really think much about it until they start taking pre-orders & shipping units.
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Down this path lies sanity.
 
Yeah, aren't there over 7000 REDS out there, at $17500, a piece, lets see, naught goes inta naught.... equals about $122, 000, 000.00 bucks... that's a whole lot of capitalization.... and with a cash flow like that, I am sure that Jim J. has a real decent credit score... I'm just sayin'
 
mcgeedigital said:
Zephyrnoid said:
Not to sound rude, but I'll bet $1,000 you can't come up with the names of 6800 RED owners.
Click to expand...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34902

Do you want my paypal address?
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He's not asking if you can find somebody with the number 6732 engraved onto their camera. He's betting that nobody here can list 6800 names of Red One owners.

He's saying that you don't really know that Red has sold 6800 cameras.

Red's marketing is ALL about building hype and excitement. Their marketing has never been about releasing the most accurate information, it's always about releasing whatever information that will garner the biggest public reaction. Creating the impression that they've sold more cameras than they actually have sold would not be surprising in the least.
 
Don't even think about the scarlet. When it comes, it comes.

By the same token don't even think about their spec sheet now. What matters is their spec sheet when it comes out, compared to the other cameras when they come out.

Comparing announcements of something you can't buy is a waste of time and effort.
 
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