Sankor/Kowa Anamorphic Lens Discussion and Footage

I think you can expect a very sharp image from a dedicated (but unfortunately very expensive) anamorphic cine lens. There are a lot movies shot anamorphic with extreme shallow DOF and tack sharp.
 
Yes and no on the WFO situation. There are indeed a lot of theatrical motion pictures shot with anamorphic lenses and shallow DOF. But a great deal of that shallow DOF is due to long focal lengths being employed for close ups, and of course the fact that all anamorphics have shallow DOF even at medium apertures. Wide open, all lenses lose contrast and clarity, anamorphics more so. Yes, panavision lenses are very well made, as are lots of other brands and series, etc. And yes, sometimes DPs shoot wide open for night establishing shots - but when it comes time for the closer shots everyone lights for a better f stop as there is no reason not to and every reason to do it.
 
Here are some pics that show my Sankor 16C with it's step down ring. (52mm-42mm) Remember this is off by about 1.5mm...so super glue is what is holding it. It is working fine though. I messed up the first time, so it looks messy...(put glue on the wrong edge) No problem, I'll redo it at some stage, the ring only cost $6 including shipping from Hong Kong. I hope this helps anyone considering anamorphic lenses. ps...the A lens is Nikkor DX 55-200. I would also say that in the context of working with the anamorphic lens, I would get a "zoom" lens like this one. Focusing can be a pain, but it's a lot easier with a zoom lens. I know the "cost" is sharpness, (compared to a prime lens)...but it helps alot.

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Enjoy!
 
sankor 16F sample daylight

sankor 16F sample daylight

http://s228.photobucket.com/albums/ee139/jeandodge67/?action=view&current=cupcakes.jpg

Screen capture from 30p video: sankor 16F anamorphic adaptor shot w A lens Nikkor 85mm f/1.8 AI at 1/50th sec f 5.6 ISO 100 w pola filter on canon 5D mk2.

It's not much of a photo but it does show how the lens softens colors and handles highlghts. I keep using the word "creamy" when describing the look - it make an image that looks a bit like amateur 16mm with kodachrome.
 
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OK, almost there with the footage. I don't really have time for some fancy editing, just basic stuff. Will post it shortly. After reviewing all the footage I have to say it can get very hairy using a anamorphic adapter. More difficult to focus for sure and the small 3inch display does not really help. For any serious work a external monitor is a must.

edit... uploading now, might take a while :)
ok it's online:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVScgUtUx38
 
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OK, almost there with the footage. I don't really have time for some fancy editing, just basic stuff.
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Thanks for posting that! Cool to see those lens flares. VERY NICE! I think it's FREAKING AWESOME that you live in Hong Kong. How long have you lived there? NICE!

It seems like that lens has some barreling issues too yes?

Thanks for posting. I wonder if this is a better option than the Sankor(s)? What's your view?
 
Been living here for 5 years now, but traveling on a regular basis to HK since late 90s. Has its ups and downs.
I think all the cheap anamorphic adapters give you barrel distortions. Since I have both kinds of adapters I'd say the generic one is easier to use and more versatile due to its 52mm rear thread. As you can see there is no vignetting on a full frame sensor (as long as you don't screw it onto something wider than 52mm thread).
My other adapter, the Singer (which I believe might also be from the same factory as the Kowa) has a better image quality, will do some tests when I have my custom machined step ring, but that'll take a while.

Say guys, do you think this doesn't look as wide as it should be? It looks more like 2.25 or 2.30:1 instead of 2.37:1
I am pretty damn sure that I handled it the correct way in post. I did a 33% horizontal stretch... any ideas?
 
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Here's my handheld test shots with the sankor 16F. Not much new to see here, just some raw clips off the camera with the lens handheld. I have not unsqueezed them yet, been too busy playing in the nice weather/ nice light we are currently enjoying. I did upload one night clip where I remove the lens so you can see a before/after kind of comparison.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeandodge/sets/72157622364088668/show/

Waiting for my stepup rings... I think we've learned a bit here. I like the look you can get with these "jap adapters" but focus is a pain and they are never very sharp even when you do get it right. I wouldn't advise using these for anything that will screen on something bigger than a laptop, really. But maybe if you were very very careful you could get a good image for large presentation - I'd have to see it to believe it though. That will be the first thing I will test when I get a decent way to mount the lens.
 
I'm glad this thread has been setup. I think there are some very good questions about these anamorphic adapters. This weekend, I'll do some objective testing and post it here.

For example: Several comments have been made about my 16C footage being overstretched. I hit Squig up about it and he said that the way I'm doing it is correct. I can also say that the subjects in front of my lens do look correct, but I agree that it is WAY FREAKING WIDE. Having said that, I think that's what you get when you anamorphicize an already 16:9 image!

Test: I'll shoot some footage of a basketball, or tennis ball (or some other porportional object) with the Anamorphic lens, then without the anamorphic lens. I'll get screen shots of both images, then I'll overlay/transparent the images (to see if they line up) and post them. To be honest, I was already thinking about that this weekend. (I was watching the subjects closely and they appear to be correct, but I'm not entirely sure.) This should clear this one up.

Problem: Step down rings or other methods of predictably and safely connecting to the A lens. I'm happy with my solution, but I can see that the 16F doesn't have the same "slot" or "ledge" to "butt-up" against. I do think you could use some combination of step-up/step-down rings to create a similar solution. I would LOVE a better solution. (A custom machined .75 pitch ring on one side with standard pitch on the other side for 52mm)...but what does that cost and where can we get it done? (I know that many Sankors don't have threads though, so that won't work for many.)

Solution: Please post pics of how you are rigging your lenses. Akira has an interesting method. My method is totally red-neck. Marc is screwing straight on because it has 52mm threads right on the lens. Any others....post some pics so we can all learn from you!

Question: Can you actually get these things to focus properly? After this weekend my answer would be yes...but I'd better do some more objective testing and compare the images and post them. That will hopefully help some people out...(no way would I waste more time on a "look" that can't ever focus properly).

Note: I think some people may NOT be adjusting the "focal length" on the anamorphic lens. I will say that I MUST get that right FIRST before I even try to focus on my A lens. I have found that if I don't...focus IS TRULY IMPOSSIBLE. But, if I get the distance between me and my subject correct and have it "dailed-in" on the anamorphic lens, good focus isn't a problem. To compare that focus, I think will be interesting (compared to focus without the anamorphic lens). I ASSUME that it will NOT be as good...but we'll see if that difference is acceptable or not. Again, I'll do screen shots and footage and post them here...it will be the weekend before I get to it though....my 9-5 takes up too much time during the week to be able to shoot.

Iscorama Question: How close is a Sankor, Bell & Howell, Generic, Singer, or Kowa to an Iscorama? I should be receiving my Iscorama 50mm (and Anamorphic) this weekend. I'll include it in the same tests, and we'll see how they stack up. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know which one is better...but HOW MUCH better? How much easier is it to focus? Can you get sharper focus? ...etc.

Solution: I'll post footage to let your eyes do the comparison. I don't have a Kowa lens though. I think someone here just got a Kowa and an Iscorama...could you kindly post some footage of the same subject/conditions with some of your perspective. I almost bought a Kowa and wasn't sure if I should have got it instead of the Sankor?

Diopter Question: Does a diopter help as far as focus goes? (I know that's not it's overall purpose...it's about being able to get a shot without standing 5-10 feet away) And how do you mount a diopter to the front of one of these lenses? (Usually have no threads on the front.) If Akira hasn't already tried "duct tape", I'll be the first!! (lol)

Bottom line: We clearly have questions....so far I'm not sure about answers. Does anyone else have any specific questions you'd like me to try and test?
 
Glad to help with Kowa 8z / Isco 36 comparisons when my step rings arrive.

No filter thread to mount diopters on the Kowa, though! But I can handhold, as usual.

BTW, your Sankor footage is super wide because it's a 2x anamorphic, which creates a 32:9 aspect ration. I cropped the edges of my Kowa footage to give a 24:9 aspect, the same as what the Isco gives, which is a 1.5x anamorphic.

That's why Marc's Hong Kong footage is only slightly wider, as his generic adapter is 1.33x
 
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Thanks so much hyalinejim! I look forward to seeing the comparison(s). Thanks for the crop info. I understand that I can either crop the sides or just resize it in some other way. I think that Akira is not competely resizing his vertically. (I think his is 2x, but it's not completely resized.) I think it looks fine like that...I'm sure the situation would depend. Either way...thanks for the input. Also...we'll get to see the difference between our Iscoramas. I don't think we have the same model/version. That will be fun too! One note/problem. We aren't shooting on the same camera and I'm sure it will make a difference. (I'm shooting on the D90....I'm going to wait for the dust to settle a little, 7D, 5D Mark II, D700x, GH1, ....) Anywho....thanks! I look foward to seeing your footage!
 
HHL said:
I would LOVE a better solution. (A custom machined .75 pitch ring on one side with standard pitch on the other side for 52mm)...but what does that cost and where can we get it done?
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My custom made 50mm 0.75 pitch to 52mm adapter will be machined here in HK, price is OK I guess, approx. US$ 20 but it takes around 4 weeks. There is another shop where I can get it made in one week but double price.
I'd be happy to help out if one of you guys wants a custom made one.

hyalinejim said:
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That's why Marc's Hong Kong footage is only slightly wider, as his generic adapter is 1.33x
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The generic adapter was originally intended to be used on 4:3 sensor sized DV cams so you will get a 16:9 image. With that in mind you will get a 2.37:1 ratio when used on 16:9 sensor sized cameras.
However, I compared to another video of mine that I cropped in FCP to 2.35:1 and the 2.37:1 doesn't look as wide as the cropped one.
I can't figure out why, any ideas?
 
it's a isco 36 - the isco 54 is big
anyway it explains it on the captian jack site
". It's a two part lens, a modified automatic 50mm f2.8 and a special anamorphoser."
 
My custom made 50mm 0.75 pitch to 52mm adapter will be machined here in HK, price is OK I guess, approx. US$ 20 but it takes around 4 weeks.
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Thanks Marc! I'll have to consider this weekend! I'm going to give my redneck solution another weekend of usage and see whatup?

As for the crop/size issues....I'm watching my own workflow very carefully, because I'm not exactly sure. I know that I'll get it worked out and then share here.
 
Good luck HHL. I'll use my Singer exclusively on Super 8, may try it again on 4/3ds cameras or other small chip sized cams. We'll see.
 
hmmm... I don´t know if this is total B.S. but I - as a guy that knows close to nothing bout optics - would use a "horizontal only condenser" between a medium format lens and a 35mm adapter. So the bigger image circle would be projected on the 35mm screen of the adapter.
So I could use all my beloved medium format lenses and still have wide screen.


Am I complete of the track or is this working?

Frank
 
Frank, in theory that sounds all good. But what you will end up with is a beastly rig of a camera and I think most people are going for D-SLRs with video functionality to not have big rigs.
 
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