ROCKMORE
Veteran
Good one, yes exactly.
Samsung NX1 getting log-like setting
- Thread starter eddavid
- Start date
True North
Well-known member
I can't remember where exactly I read it but I am pretty sure that Metabones has stated that due to the flange distance on the NX1 there will be no speedbooster possible.
ROCKMORE
Veteran
Samuel What exactly are the cropped frames on the NX1 at different frame rates and field sizes? UHD/4K 60p 120p etc. Also what do you think the DR is looking like right now with the new Gamma firmware?
Samuel H
Major Contributor
No idea about the cropped frames, I thought it always used the whole sensor but I'm not sure, I don't have an NX1 
And regarding DR, all I know is what we measured in this thread a month or so ago: that it's somewhere between 5D3 and a7S in terms of DR
Regarding the Speedbooster, maybe they'll have to change something in the design but I think someone could make a focal reducer that just protrudes back into the camera. Not sure, though.
And regarding DR, all I know is what we measured in this thread a month or so ago: that it's somewhere between 5D3 and a7S in terms of DR
Regarding the Speedbooster, maybe they'll have to change something in the design but I think someone could make a focal reducer that just protrudes back into the camera. Not sure, though.
ROCKMORE
Veteran
Yes I'm sure they can design a lens to go inside the camera body since there is no mirror. But of course it would be limited to FF lenses since it's an apsc sensor.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
It's taken a while, but finally I got an estimation of the DR of the sensor when shooting RAW stills, and it's pretty great.
The dpreview article has a section on DR, where they shoot at their standard test target but underexposing up to 6 stops, then push back up the image in post. This exercise doesn't look into the highlights at all, but AFAIK the headroom in the highlights in RAW stills is usually very similar across brands and models, so the difference in the shadows is what separates the Sonys from the Canons...
What I see:
* The NX1 is around two stops better than the 6D (which is the best performing Canon DSLR, according to dxomark).
* The NX1 is around half a stop worse than the D750 (which according to dxomark is 2.5 stops better than the 6D).
* The NX1 is about the same as the D5500 (which according to dxomark is two stops better than the 6D)
(yes, that's how far behind current Canon DSLR sensors are in terms of DR, even against APS-C sensors from the competition).
So, I think the NX1 is around the same as the D5500, and that means it's less than a stop behind the best full frame performers, which is insanely awesome. "Two stops better than a Pocket shooting RAW" kind of awesome. If you're not salivating by now I don't know what's wrong with you XDDD
THE NX1 NEEDS A GAMMA CURVE THAT PRESERVES IN VIDEO MODE ALL THE DR THAT THE SENSOR CAN PROVIDE
(or RAW video, but I'd rather get a wider gamma curve)
(I know with an 8-bit codec it can produce banding, but don't worry, I'll deal with that, just let me have my wide gamma curve, pretty please)
The dpreview article has a section on DR, where they shoot at their standard test target but underexposing up to 6 stops, then push back up the image in post. This exercise doesn't look into the highlights at all, but AFAIK the headroom in the highlights in RAW stills is usually very similar across brands and models, so the difference in the shadows is what separates the Sonys from the Canons...
What I see:
* The NX1 is around two stops better than the 6D (which is the best performing Canon DSLR, according to dxomark).
* The NX1 is around half a stop worse than the D750 (which according to dxomark is 2.5 stops better than the 6D).
* The NX1 is about the same as the D5500 (which according to dxomark is two stops better than the 6D)
(yes, that's how far behind current Canon DSLR sensors are in terms of DR, even against APS-C sensors from the competition).
So, I think the NX1 is around the same as the D5500, and that means it's less than a stop behind the best full frame performers, which is insanely awesome. "Two stops better than a Pocket shooting RAW" kind of awesome. If you're not salivating by now I don't know what's wrong with you XDDD
THE NX1 NEEDS A GAMMA CURVE THAT PRESERVES IN VIDEO MODE ALL THE DR THAT THE SENSOR CAN PROVIDE
(or RAW video, but I'd rather get a wider gamma curve)
(I know with an 8-bit codec it can produce banding, but don't worry, I'll deal with that, just let me have my wide gamma curve, pretty please)
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Samuel H
Major Contributor
I hadn't noticed that, but yes, they have a preliminary result (it doesn't appear in the comparison tool but it does in the shortlist for the camera).
Maybe it has half a stop less in the highlights, because in the dpreview tool the shadows look very close to those of the D5500, I wouldn't say that's a difference of 0.8 stops. Maybe 0.3 stops, but not 0.8.
The dpreview test doesn't include overexposure shots, but looking at the +0EV shot, the highlights in the bottle in the center look better on the D5500 than on the NX1, maybe that's the half-stop that I'm missing.
In any case, 13.2 stops is half a stop better than my NEX-5N, which I rated at more than one stop better than the pocket when shooting RAW stills. And the pocket already has slightly more DR than my a7S+slog2. Yeah, I think I'll take those *real* 13.2 stops: WHERE'S MY WIDE GAMMA CURVE, SAMSUNG???
On a different topic... wow, that D7200 result is really impressive. Up there with the best FF cameras, a stop behind them, or closer, in all areas. No hope of Nikon giving us a wider gamma curve, or RAW video, though...
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Samuel H
Major Contributor
NX1 lovers, check this out. And this is the FS7, BTW.
I really, really, really want Samsung to bring out a wider gamma curve.
I really, really, really want Samsung to bring out a wider gamma curve.
It does not crop down on the full sensor size at any resolution or framerate.
reem12
Veteran
Samuel, I have found the the dynamic range setting on the nx1 1.22 software update to be decent enough for the shadows, it just doesn't transcode the shadow smoothly, as when coming strait off the cam. It would be nice if samsung could give us something that helps the highlights. it just needs to transition little more gradual. This cam has the potential to be a thorn in the side for some high end cameras. Already to my eyes the dynamic range looks better to me than tha of the bmpc 4k., and when paird with old nikon manuel lenses the game real goes to another level.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
I think I looked at one of the tests earlier on this thread with the original H.265 footage, so, even if transcoding can degrade the shadows somehow, it's not the reason the DR is not as good as it could be.
Right now the DR should be a lot better than the bmpc 4K shoting RAW, or than the GH4, and also better than any Canon DSLR to date. It's not that far off the a7S+slog2, actually. And adding a wider gamma curve that gives you two stops more should be easy if Samsung decides to go for it. You'd have to fight banding and other 8-bit-related issues, but I'm ready to jump through all the hoops if the DR is there.
For the record, I found those tests when looking at how good my a7S would look with a 4K recorder that would cost me basically the same as an NX1. Give me a wider curve and a promise of a speedbooster in the near future, and my PIX-E5H money becomes NX1 money.
Also, if anyone knows how we can talk to someone in Samsung who might want to hear this, I'd loooove to get in contact. I can try to seduce him/her with my numerous K-pop cover dance videos XD
Right now the DR should be a lot better than the bmpc 4K shoting RAW, or than the GH4, and also better than any Canon DSLR to date. It's not that far off the a7S+slog2, actually. And adding a wider gamma curve that gives you two stops more should be easy if Samsung decides to go for it. You'd have to fight banding and other 8-bit-related issues, but I'm ready to jump through all the hoops if the DR is there.
For the record, I found those tests when looking at how good my a7S would look with a 4K recorder that would cost me basically the same as an NX1. Give me a wider curve and a promise of a speedbooster in the near future, and my PIX-E5H money becomes NX1 money.
Also, if anyone knows how we can talk to someone in Samsung who might want to hear this, I'd loooove to get in contact. I can try to seduce him/her with my numerous K-pop cover dance videos XD
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Jay Kelbley's email was posted - and actually used! - on the old NX1 thread.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
Found it, thanks
Also, dxomark numbers are out.
NX1 vs a6000 vs D7200
The NX1 matches the a6000 pretty closely in every respect, which to me looks like a very good result (Canon would LOVE to match that XD - this is NX1 vs 7D2 vs 5D3). The D7200 is clearly ahead in DR.
NX1 vs a7S vs NEX-5N
The NX1 matches my current camera (a7S) at minimum ISO, but use anything above that and the a7S starts to pull ahead. It does beat my previous one (NEX-5N).
Also, just to save the link here: dpreview NX1 DR samples.
Also, dxomark numbers are out.
NX1 vs a6000 vs D7200
The NX1 matches the a6000 pretty closely in every respect, which to me looks like a very good result (Canon would LOVE to match that XD - this is NX1 vs 7D2 vs 5D3). The D7200 is clearly ahead in DR.
NX1 vs a7S vs NEX-5N
The NX1 matches my current camera (a7S) at minimum ISO, but use anything above that and the a7S starts to pull ahead. It does beat my previous one (NEX-5N).
Also, just to save the link here: dpreview NX1 DR samples.
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DPStewart
Veteran
Found it, thanks
Also, dxomark numbers are out.
NX1 vs a6000 vs D7200
The NX1 matches the a6000 pretty closely in every respect, which to me looks like a very good result (Canon would LOVE to match that XD - this is NX1 vs 7D2 vs 5D3). The D7200 is clearly ahead in DR.
NX1 vs a7S vs NEX-5N
The NX1 matches my current camera (a7S) at minimum ISO, but use anything above that and the a7S starts to pull ahead. It does beat my previous one (NEX-5N).
Also, just to save the link here: dpreview NX1 DR samples.
You have to observe that these findings here in these links are for STILLS, not video.
The D7200 is not going to be beating the NX1 in video mode.
And the VIDEO out of the a6000 is not going to catch the NX1.
I was all into the Nikons for a while until I just accepted that the video quality is not competitive. The major flaw being the highlights - they just blow out way too harshly. No decently smooth roll off at all. On paper the Nikon specs look great. Looking at the actual video is another story. For such a popular camera line, there is a reason you almost never hear about them when it comes to video use.
The shadow macro-blocking of the NX1 seems to be the only issue at all with its video performance. It's a really strong contender in a crowded field.
reem12
Veteran
Ok, my new findings are using the rocky mountain transcoder with a 4k clip will cancel out the majority of any macro blocking the nx1 exhibits in the shadows as long your not asking the camera to do magic. But when shooting in 1080 under the same conditions is like using an inferior codec. so I'm thinking for those more tricky shots where I have to succumb to shooting in the shadow areas I will utilize 4k. But iso 100 to 800 even 1080 does well on the rocky mountain. I'm thinking a lot of the break down of the shadows is coming via inferior transcoders. Love this cam!
Darktide Media
Active member
We are using and loving the NX1, image is much better then a GH4 but I agree, A true Log Image like S Log or the new V Log would really help. The sensor is there is make an amazing image. Also one thing that I did not know is that H265 supports 10 bit 422, so mabye thats a big reason Samsung did H265 was to add that later, adding that and a LOG would be amazing.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
Of course: the dxomark numbers are always for RAW stills. What they reveal for me is how good is the potential in this sensor, i.e. how good this camera could be if they added RAW video, or (my favorite) a wider gamma curve that preserves in video mode all the DR from the sensor. According to those dxomark numbers, the sensor has around a stop more DR than my old NEX-5N, which (on RAW stills) was more than a stop better than the Pocket, which is a bit better than my a7S. Summary: shooting RAW video, the NX1 would be close to FS7 in terms of DR.
C100Scottie
Active member
I've been loving this camera as well. Can't wait to see what Samsung has in store for another update. Ive been using edit ready on a mac, shooting mostly in 1080p to pro res, and I haven't seen any shadow blocking. I do notice some banding and flickering under
certain lighting conditions though.
certain lighting conditions though.