Rumor: Canon 4k super35 camera

Kholi said:
Isn't that also one of Canon's big things, though? The sensor development? I can't remember where I've read it but it seems like a few times, that Canon's got their own plants and R&D specifically for sensor technology.

Still, I wonder! And at a time when I should be doing other things. Doh.
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Correct. And for the most part they are about 2 to 3 years ahead of anybody in terms of sensor tech. It's more a matter of it being profitable to put into consumer/prosumer devices. They have had a 50 megapixel FF35 sensor for a couple years that hasn't been deployed in anything we can purchase yet. While we might get something like that, almost all technology companies like to be incremental with their upgrades. It's really a waiting game of seeing what they will have to offer, we already know what's possible.
 
Phil Holland said:
Correct. And for the most part they are about 2 to 3 years ahead of anybody in terms of sensor tech. It's more a matter of it being profitable to put into consumer/prosumer devices. They have had a 50 megapixel FF35 sensor for a couple years that hasn't been deployed in anything we can purchase yet. While we might get something like that, almost all technology companies like to be incremental with their upgrades. It's really a waiting game of seeing what they will have to offer, we already know what's possible.
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Without getting into conspiracy or attempting to sound like I am against anyone (big fan of REDs cameras, always shoot with them), Jim has mentioned before that there is one company in a position to really compete against them. It never sounded like it was ARRI, to me it always sounded like Canon.

The Sensor Tech and Canon being pretty aggressive when they are on the map--we've seen them gut their own product like "in a way" with the XLH1 and XHA1/G1--it seems likely to me.

It's all just as you said, though, a waiting game and worse...speculation.
 
Kholi said:
Without getting into conspiracy or attempting to sound like I am against anyone (big fan of REDs cameras, always shoot with them), Jim has mentioned before that there is one company in a position to really compete against them. It never sounded like it was ARRI, to me it always sounded like Canon.

The Sensor Tech and Canon being pretty aggressive when they are on the map--we've seen them gut their own product like "in a way" with the XLH1 and XHA1/G1--it seems likely to me.

It's all just as you said, though, a waiting game and worse...speculation.
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The small format video cams are not the same market. Just finished a consulting job for a college sports complex where they installed XF305 manned systems and the Canon BH-46 weatherproof robotic camera versions for recording and streaming sports events live to UstreamTV. Very long telephoto lens shots, fast action, and student jock operators. Not a mix that would work with any large sensor format camera system. "film makers" are a very small part of the video camera market. There is a lot of bread and butter production work that the fixed lens small format cams are perfectly suited for.
 
Razz16mm said:
Red has pretty much locked down compressed Bayer RAW for frame rates above 23fps with their Redcode patents. You are not likely to see compressed raw motion recording from anyone for a long time.
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Why? Nothing prevented various different still camera manufacturers from using bayer RAW. What's different above 23fps?
 
I would be deeply surprised if we get anything more than 8 bit 4.2.2 from Canon if it is a 5DMIII. 10bit would be great, but it probably is pie in the sky. However, moire, aliasing and the like probably will be "fixed" (relatively speaking). This hoopla would make sense because Canon is deeply discounting the 5DMII all through the month of October. If they are revealing a vid camera or a whole range of cameras, then I think it is likely we will see S35 PL and EF. 4k is anyone's guess at this point.

In terms of RED's head to head for Nov. 3, let me say this, even though I think the man in charge is reason enough NOT to buy the camera (Rebel's always do eventually make the best dictator's, don't they?) I think it is a smart marketing move. Why? Because, if Canon does reveal a satisfying solution for the average Joe, RED can still show how much better their camera is by comparison (technically) and thus tell us once again for the umpteenth time, that Canon is only for poor amateur slobs and they are for the "pro's". Thus stealing some fire or at least benefiting from all the noise being kicked up on that day (a bit like Mcdonald's and Burger King having restaurants besides each other). Otherwise if Canon presents us with another fabulous printer, then RED looks more and more like the only game in town (or so they would have you believe), and they win big. It's a good strategy.
 
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Barry_Green said:
Thinking about this... The cinema guys who first adopted the 5D mostly complained about the codec and the lack of raw. And I think we all know that raw ain't gonna happen on a $2500 DSLR recording to a cf card. But that thunderbolt thing... If all canon had to do to make Hollywood happy is put a raw output port on... And, being Hollywood, they can supply the external raw recorders themselves... Well, that surely seems a reasonable guess.

Now, without massive improvements to the sensor tech to make raw worthwhile, I don't know how valuable this would be, but ... A 5D mark III announcement with a raw output on thunderbolt, announced in hollywoord, seems plausible.
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AAAAaaaaand that is TRULY SCARY. (Maybe I'll enter that in "Scarefest"?)

I'm sure the time WILL COME (just like in photography right now) where the ***CAMERA*** is the LEAST important of all factors. RAW video from a DSLR would TRULY move us to within INCHES of that place. (Oh ya....it already happened in Photography with RAW and in music production with ProTools [not exactly...but you know what'um sayin])

MAN do I hope that Barry's "plausible" scenario turns out to be REALITY!!!! :)
 
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So a 5DMKlll would maybe come in at a MSRP of between $3000.00 to $4000.00, give or take a little, right? So RED is pushing to compete in that price range? What happened to "Man Up"? I don't know, something just don't sound right about that.. unless the 5DMKIII is really, really killer. I still don't know about that.
 
David G. Smith said:
So a 5DMKlll would maybe come in at a MSRP of between $3000.00 to $4000.00, give or take a little, right? So RED is pushing to compete in that price range? What happened to "Man Up"? I don't know, something just don't sound right about that.. unless the 5DMKIII is really, really killer. I still don't know about that.
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Yep, that sounds like the right price.

I don't know that they are deciding to compete in that price range. I think they are shooting for the 5-10K market. Anything less and I believe they would have to make too many compromises.

Man up? Some people made far too much of it, but most everyone just kept on keeping on. Or they worked their bums off and bought an EPIC-M at 20 years of age.

I feel like the idea of the 5dmkIII coming out and offering all of these features and abilities that stomp on cameras like the Alexa, the EPIC, and the F65 might just be a bit pie in the sky. But I do think that Canon have realized that they have a good thing going, but they they could go a lot further with a few tweaks - proper downsampling, better I/O, and a better codec. Who knows. Maybe I'll be totally blown away on Nov 3 and will end up buying the $6K FF35 compressed RAW 5K wunderkind.
 
Gotta get me a glock so I can encourage a banker to loan me the money for a new camera. Gonna watch Heat first to get myself psyched. I'm not putting on a balaclava if it's gonna moire.
 
Michael Olsen said:
Yep, that sounds like the right price.

I don't know that they are deciding to compete in that price range. I think they are shooting for the 5-10K market. Anything less and I believe they would have to make too many compromises.

Man up? Some people made far too much of it, but most everyone just kept on keeping on. Or they worked their bums off and bought an EPIC-M at 20 years of age.

I feel like the idea of the 5dmkIII coming out and offering all of these features and abilities that stomp on cameras like the Alexa, the EPIC, and the F65 might just be a bit pie in the sky. But I do think that Canon have realized that they have a good thing going, but they they could go a lot further with a few tweaks - proper downsampling, better I/O, and a better codec. Who knows. Maybe I'll be totally blown away on Nov 3 and will end up buying the $6K FF35 compressed RAW 5K wunderkind.
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Yeah, I don't think RED is really going to go head to head with Canon on price, if the big announcement from them is the 5DMklll, but want to pull the wind out of their sails for those folks with $10, 000.00 or so to spend on a new video camera and who would have rushed out and got the new Canon, just cause. If the new Canon is a dedicated video camera, approaching Scarlet type specs (well, speculated specs), then all bets are off. November 3 is gonna be a fun day.
 
If Canon do find Red's bayer raw patents un-get-round-able, then they may just decide to buy out Red, which they could do out of petty cash without really noticing.

Having said that, don't discount what Canon's R&D can come up with. Hell, Canon are so massively diversified and vertically integrated they even make the lines on which chips are made. Wouldn't be surprised if Red's chips are made on Canon lines lol.

Dave
 
RED would not let itself be bought out by Canon because the man in charge created RED as a personal passion. He already has about Gazillion dollars from the sale of Oakley anyhow. Absolutely no motivation to sell out.
 
Everyone has their price.

As I understand Jim got about 2x10^9 USD for selling Oakley, as I said, petty cash to a company like Canon. I won't go further for fear of the Mods.

Having said all that, I don't really think Canon will try to buy out Red, their R&D are quite capable of developing their own Raw codec, they've had years of experience of raw files.

Dave
 
daveswan said:
Everyone has their price.

As I understand Jim got about 2x10^9 USD for selling Oakley, as I said, petty cash to a company like Canon. I won't go further for fear of the Mods.

Having said all that, I don't really think Canon will try to buy out Red, their R&D are quite capable of developing their own Raw codec, they've had years of experience of raw files.

Dave
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Not an expert here guys....but why not use the free Adobe open source codec DNGRaw video?
 
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