Rumor: Canon 4k super35 camera

maarek said:
If Canon introduces a 50mbps 4:2:2 DSLR style camcorder with an EF-mount... it would be historic in my marketing mind. THAT is the camera I wan't, not the e-mount or 4/3's. Not 24mbps AVCHD but 50mbps 4:2:2 mpeg2 which is enough for a lot of things. Doesn't have to be 4k. Doesn't have to be 3d.
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Well, I mean doesn't the price have to factor in here somewhat? You can already get a cinema style camcorder with pretty much everything you are asking for
(well maybe not the EF-mount)......but the catch is you have to pay for it. So even if Canon introduces what you are asking for, and it cost 20 grand, is
it still 'historic' in your mind? I think the issue is that people want all kinds of things in a camera, but they want them at a price point that is kind
of unrealistic (not saying this to you in particular, just people in general). In my mind, for the features you are asking for to be 'historic'....they are
going to have to hit a price point that is lower than what I think is realistic. Otherwise, it is just another 'good but more expensive' camcorder. There's
already things like the F3 (with external recorder and S Log)....or Red,....or Alexa.....depends on what you want to spend. If you are looking for the
features you name,and expecting them in the AF100/FS100 price range......you may be sorely disappointed. Or maybe not, I could be totally wrong and if
they DO introduce what you are talking about for 5 grand, I'd say that would be a pretty big deal.
 
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alaskacameradude said:
Of course, it wouldn't surprise me to see them introduce a REALLY COOL printer either.....I mean a printer of
'Historic and Global proportions). Maybe it's just REALLY big? (global proportions and all....)
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But then the appropriate city for their presentation would have been Mainz/Germany, the home of Johannes Gutenberg (whose name by birth, as we talk about possible absurdities embedded in reality, was Johannes Gensfleisch von Sorgenloch => John Gooseflesh of Sorrowhole. Yes. Really!).

Barry is of course right: A new DSLR ..... okay, nice, clap, clap ..... a new video camera with the to be expected features or a bit better .... well, good, hooray, they are (finally, a little late) with the crowd ... but that's not really something of "global & historic" size, nothing that comes as if it needs to be accompanied by the opening music of "2001".

So I propose it's either a Ford Edsel-style case of mismanagement by their public relations guys .... or they should have something up their sleeves not too deep below the weight class of, say, holographic moving pictures. Which ever way it develops: They themselves have upped the ante and now we wait for deliverance of the great, mighty, colourful, x-K, RAW recording, terribly powerful whatsoever..... for under 10K €. And 25p. Or a printer.
 
I still reckon a 5DII sized sensor, shooting full HD at 50Mbs 4:2:2 (or some other broadcast ready format), would be a big deal. It'd give you an image that no one else could really compete with (and probably the sensitivity and latitude to beat out the other options in the low-cost lot at the moment).

It'd be the world's first 'affordable' vistavision-sized-sensor video camera, and that would be kinda 'historic'.
 
I think you can look at the "global & historic" as just marketing blah blah blah, or it can be historic for Canon as a company. Launching a cinema style camera would be historic in the quite long history of the company. It would depart from what their video side has done until now, which never went higher than prosumer or lower end pro level in the eng market. By saying global, it is saying that they are a big player in the market so whatever they do will have an impact on the large sensor camera market.

If the rumor is true that they are coming with two camera for prosumer and cinema level price point, it could be very interesting. Everything is based on price point. It would be historic and have global implication if Canon came out with an 1080p/2k S35 camera with its 50 mbit 10bit 4.2.2 codec for less than $ 5000 or a 4k model for $ 15 000. Sony and Pana have left quite some space for someone to maneuver with 8 bit camera with base 24 mbit avchd codec in the first place at about the $ 5000 price point. If anyone think that the tech is not here for such price point just look at the hacked $ 900 gh2. 220 mbit gop 1 bitrate (yes 220 mbit)is coming out of this nearly pocket dslr size camera. The only thing lacking in my opinion 10 bit.

Now perhaps canon has sense that it could make a killing in this market with the surprise success of the 5D mark 2 etc, rather than wait for Sony and Pana to eat up that market with large sensor camera offerings from the consumer level vg-20, to prosumer af100, fs100 to pro F3 models. They just need to capitalize on the momentum they have from the hdslr to dominate that field. They have all the tech for that, from the sensor to the lens. Imagine if they use the tech they have in the 7d apsc/s35 size sensor but for a 2k or 4 k camera. The pixel size would be from 4 to 8 times bigger, with much better noise and dynamic range. This is 2/3 year old technology, but you could get very good dynamic range and noise from these sensors.

In launching those cameras they would probably loose some market share from Sony and Panasonic eng lens because they would compete straight at them, but I think that they have perhaps weighted it against the tons of lens they have sold and project to sell to the large sensor camera world. Many have said that it was strange that Canon (to some extend Nikon) has nothing to loose (part of eng lens might be sacrificed) to launch some large sensor camera with no string attached because they had no high end camera line to protect, perhaps this is the time.
 
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Just to dump some more oil in the flames :cheesy:

EF & PL Mount Cameras
I’ve received more contact that EF and PL mount camcorders are coming from Canon over the next 6 months or so.
We’d see the EF mount camera most likely before the end of 2011 and the higher end PL mount version sometime before Q2 in 2012.

The source said the EF mount camera looks to be “affordable” and would be extremely popular, the PL mount camera would be a higher end professional solution.

No mention of sensor size or specs on either camera. That is usually a good sign this far ahead of any sort of announcement.

Take any rumor of an EF mount video camera with a large grain of salt. This is a product that does not exist yet and has a potential to be a wishlist product.
http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/09/more-ef-pl-video-rumors-surface/
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But maybe it´s just this: http://canon.thismoment.com/
 
Wouldn't a full frame digital video/cinema camera be historic and global?

As far as I know, there are no full frame digital cameras dedicated to video/cinema.

I keep reading that Hollywood doesn't want or need full frame... but the vast amounts of 5DIIs at work seems to suggest otherwise.
 
If Canon did a 4K-video-capable, 4:4:4, 12-bit global-shutter dSLR that also had RAW out for under $5K, that would be historic. Maybe in 2018, when it's not that interesting.
 
stockfuel said:
Wouldn't a full frame digital video/cinema camera be historic and global?

As far as I know, there are no full frame digital cameras dedicated to video/cinema.

I keep reading that Hollywood doesn't want or need full frame... but the vast amounts of 5DIIs at work seems to suggest otherwise.
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In production, the larger format has always posed a number of issues - largely the cost of film stock, lens options, and focus-pulling with the shallower DoF characteristics of a larger imager.

However, digital obviously removes the film cost issue, and with options like the Zeiss CP2s now available and offering coverage for the full-frame (along with tonnes of still camera lenses - if the production is willing to deal with the handling of them), lenses are no longer a problem.

Add that to the incredible sensitivity of modern digital sensors, and the low-noise qualities they exhibit at high ISOs, and the ability to increase your sensitivity in order to stop down your lens and gain more usable levels of DoF now offers possibilities that never existed with large-format film back in the day.

Given how much nicer larger-format images look (and the resounding feedback Canon received for the image coming out of their 5DII) and it would seem a fairly reasonable leap in logic, that a large-format video camera would go down extremely well these days.
 
Not sure if this was mentioned yet but the word Global just popped something in my head. A global CMOS chip camera in something in the price point of the AF100 and FS100 would sound good.
 
Yeah, I remember when Panasonic use the term "game changing" to describe the AF100 and was that ever an overstatement. Let's hope Canon at least moves the ball forward.. competition is good.
 
stockfuel said:
I keep reading that Hollywood doesn't want or need full frame... but the vast amounts of 5DIIs at work seems to suggest otherwise.
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The 5DmkII did well because it was dirt cheap. The dirt cheapness is the only reason. IF it was more expensive, it would have been shredded for having such poor performance at a higher price.... but, at $2100, its a steal!

Full frame had little to do with it.
 
TimurCivan said:
The 5DmkII did well because it was dirt cheap. The dirt cheapness is the only reason. IF it was more expensive, it would have been shredded for having such poor performance at a higher price.... but, at $2100, its a steal!

Full frame had little to do with it.
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Absolutely! And $2100 is pennies in this business as Timur will tell you that amount want even buy !/2 of a quality cinema lens.
 
TimurCivan said:
The 5DmkII did well because it was dirt cheap. The dirt cheapness is the only reason. IF it was more expensive, it would have been shredded for having such poor performance at a higher price.... but, at $2100, its a steal!

Full frame had little to do with it.
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Well, it had, TImur, at least for House MD. The thin shallow DOF was one of the reasons they went for it in "that" infamous episode...
 
TimurCivan said:
The 5DmkII did well because it was dirt cheap. The dirt cheapness is the only reason. IF it was more expensive, it would have been shredded for having such poor performance at a higher price.... but, at $2100, its a steal!

Full frame had little to do with it.
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Hmmm.....I really don't know. (I don't know *much* these days...)
But by that logic, the T2i should have DESTROYED the 5d in sales and usage. Same image ***MINUS*** the "full frame sensor".
Also, the 7d should have surpassed it....especially because both have 60P (horrible at that)....but still the 5d doesn't have it and it is more expensive, I don't think the logic and sales numbers stack up. I do think that some people adore the "vistavision" sized sensor. I can't say, because I preferred the 1/3rd the cost 90% the same image of the T2i. :)

Anywho....from my perspective the 5d's sensor will never compare with you and your F3 (and your SLOG). !!!!!! Take that CANON!!!!!! :)
 
the 5D won out ( if that s even true... i think they sold WAAAAAY more T2i's than 5D's and 7d's combined) because its the best Photo camera out of the bunch. ITs the dual purpose king, without question. ( and dont say epic... it doesnt have a stills mode yet)

Truth be told, i rag on the DSLR's, but i just shot a documentary in the back woods of new england, and it was a combination of shooting from a car, covering cyclists in a 300 mile race, and interviews.

Swinging a F3 outt he window with a panchro on it wasn't going to happen..... 5D to the rescue!

I got great stuff shooting out the back, and windows, the small size and acceptable image quality really saved the day. When audio was critical, the F3 and its look/audio combination was the right choice there. Actually.... if i had my way, the AF100 would have been perfect.... Small, light, w. a 14-140, and built in Audio. PERFECT for that shooting situation.
 
15years ego I had used old Nikon full frame slr Nikon fm2 camera with film,that pictures are fantastic in terms of shallow depth of field,so I still prefer full frame camera is great in film making also.if we can go more ISO we can easy cut it down .
 
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