Rumor: Canon 4k super35 camera

I don't know but my gut is telling me the 3rd Nov anouncement isn't a *thing* it's more an idea or a strategy.

Thinking, as I said in the 5D forum it could be a full merging of the stills and video divisions to make a "DSMC" (To pinch Jim's nomenclature) division.

But then what do I know, I'm just a humble foot-soldier :) in the ranks of film-makers.

Dave
 
Barry_Green said:
Read the story again and see what you think.
http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20111012-906716.html
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I don't think there's room in the market for yet another RED/Alexa/F65/Whathaveyou camera. I'm not in the high-end film industry, but I can't imagine what is missing from the market that Canon could be releasing.

I think the reason why so many people are leaning towards Canon releasing an AF100/FS100 competitor is because there is room in that market for a product that provides remedies where the Panny and Sony fall short.

IMHO, I still think that IF a camera is coming from Canon it will be a tier above the AF/FS100, maybe not quite to the F3 level, but close.

It's hard to determine anything about an upcoming product based on the press release about the Support Center...they're two separate items.
 
Here's my nebulous theory of what's going on:

Hollywood surprises Canon with its enthusiasm for its DSLRs, like when they used it on House. Somewhat like DVXuser, Hollywood pesters Canon with "This is really, really great, but it would be better if it had this and this and this."

Canon decides to jump into the Hollywood movie camera business. With their size, they can compete with RED on price (Alexa doesn't really compete on price).

Jannard, with all his Hollywood connections, pretty much knows what Canon will introduce. He probably can't slash Epic's price to undercut Canon, so he's doing the next best thing: fast-tracking Scarlet, which was nearly done anyway. Even though it's a 2/3 camera, it will undercut Canon's price and perhaps cater to those who are scared of 35mm depth of field :). Like Jannard said, "Canon will announce it's very best effort for digital cinema. RED will announce Scarlet. . . The customers win. No matter what."
 
I really think you're going to see a couple of cine cams introduced. One may be higher end, but the other will definitely be for that $5-6k price tier. I just can't fathom that they would cede that demographic to Panny and Sony with their AF100 and FS100. I mean they gave Hollywood a cam that stunned them for $2,500 that started the whole DSLR craze. They just ain't walking away form that success into the high end camera sunset. The very recent announcement of the 1DX is just a teaser ramp up event for Nov. 3rd. I think the 1DX will actually produce a professional cinema image with no visible artifacts. I mean that cam has like 4 different kinds of time code for god's sake. I thnk they're saying this is a pro video cine image with their ALL-I intra codec. They certainly can put that image and codec in a less bullet proof container with all the video form factor for $5-6K, and I'm almost 99% dang certain they're going to do it on Nov 3rd. As for all the Hollywood hoopla, how else would you announce your entry into the cine world. Yes, for this even Canon would go Hollywood. ......with Jannard peeking around the corner going "Me too".
 
Yes, it's strange so many details of the 1D X were released (even including the sensor pixel size) yet the colour depth and sampling resolution of the high video datarate was left out. Perhaps because it will be the same across the board as their professional camcorder products, and therefore details held back so as not to steal the thunder from the up coming announcement. If it is 10-bit this will probably be the real post-production benefit of the Technicolor link-up -- a new CineStyle on the way I would think...
 
combatentropy said:
Here's my nebulous theory of what's going on:

Hollywood surprises Canon with its enthusiasm for its DSLRs, like when they used it on House. Somewhat like DVXuser, Hollywood pesters Canon with "This is really, really great, but it would be better if it had this and this and this."

Canon decides to jump into the Hollywood movie camera business. With their size, they can compete with RED on price (Alexa doesn't really compete on price).

Jannard, with all his Hollywood connections, pretty much knows what Canon will introduce. He probably can't slash Epic's price to undercut Canon, so he's doing the next best thing: fast-tracking Scarlet, which was nearly done anyway. Even though it's a 2/3 camera, it will undercut Canon's price and perhaps cater to those who are scared of 35mm depth of field :). Like Jannard said, "Canon will announce it's very best effort for digital cinema. RED will announce Scarlet. . . The customers win. No matter what."
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Yep, sounds quite likely.
 
Also, it's important to look at what the 1DX doesn't have. It has 4 different kinds of time code, a cine image they say is professional with their ALL-I intra codec. What doesn't it have? A headphone jack!! If they were just going to run off and do a cam in the $10-15K price tier, they would have thrown in a headphone jack in the 1DX and called it good. It's not like they didn't think of it. The 1DX is only a thoroughbred image machine, both for stills and motion. The audio features are for their cinema cam that will be in the same price tier as the 1DX. It's not because 1/8 mini jack is not a pro connection. They already have a 1/8 mini jack for an external mic, so they are not adverse to a consumer connection on their flagship pro bullet proof cam. They will let you record audio but they're not about to let you monitor it. That would make it a video cam. If you want that, you buy their $5-6K S35 cine cam.
 
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BrianMurphy said:
Maybe we will all be fooled and they are buying RED.
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I worked on a shoot earlier this year where the DP was clearly using a 7D for a scene and the producer was telling some visitors about how awesome and small the RED camera was. To be fair we did use a RED One, but it looks nothing like a 7D...
 
combatentropy said:
Here's my nebulous theory of what's going on:

Hollywood surprises Canon with its enthusiasm for its DSLRs, like when they used it on House. Somewhat like DVXuser, Hollywood pesters Canon with "This is really, really great, but it would be better if it had this and this and this."

Canon decides to jump into the Hollywood movie camera business. With their size, they can compete with RED on price (Alexa doesn't really compete on price).

Jannard, with all his Hollywood connections, pretty much knows what Canon will introduce. He probably can't slash Epic's price to undercut Canon, so he's doing the next best thing: fast-tracking Scarlet, which was nearly done anyway. Even though it's a 2/3 camera, it will undercut Canon's price and perhaps cater to those who are scared of 35mm depth of field :). Like Jannard said, "Canon will announce it's very best effort for digital cinema. RED will announce Scarlet. . . The customers win. No matter what."
Click to expand...

Barry_Green said:
Yep, sounds quite likely.
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Alas....I was hoping for something that involved alien technology that put RAW video in a camera that costs less than 1k ***sarcasm***

But I must agree, I'll bet that is exactly what happens. I'll bet that Canon announces a dedicated video camera with a large sensor. I'll bet that Red starts selling Scarlet (with some other addition or maybe a ***slight*** discount on the price)....but by and large, I think we'll see a "face off" between Red and Canon in and or around the price range of Scarlet fixed lens price. (less than 10K)...and Canon may wander as high as 13K.

I'd much rather see Canon implement video DNG (raw), but I don't think that's going to happen. :(
Or Scarlet with a S35 sensor....but I think we're stuck with 2/3 for a while in that product line. :(

Anywho...about 1 more week left!!! tick-tock-tick-tock!!! Cheers!
 
Canon doesn't even need to compete with Red. All the need to do is fill that giant gap from 4:2:0 8-bit cameras to 14-bit RAW 5k. A 4:2:2 10-bit camera for $4500 would do nicely. It would be great for episodic television, music videos, high-budget feature film B-cams, and lower budget feature A-cams. Given the level of technology these days, we should really have something like this at that price point now.

It just wouldn't make sense for them to use a 4:2:0 8-bit codec in a $5,000 camera anymore... because I'll just keep using my 7D and GH2. So no money there. And it wouldn't make sense for them to mark it up to $15,000... because then they won't get any money from the "pro-thusiast" market that made the DSLRs so wildly popular.

If they ARE releasing a s35 motion camera... and they want me to open my wallet... it's just got to be 4:2:2 (internal) and under $5000. Anything else just wouldn't be worth it.
 
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Searcher said:
i don't know what's progressing at a faster pace? Technology or the sense of entitlement in so many consumers.
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I don't even understand what this is supposed to mean? This is a free-market system. Consumers can feel entitled to whatever they want. That's what drives companies to compete against each other and make improvements. Last time I checked... the USSR wasn't in charge of "issuing" us cameras.

This isn't even about being "entitled". Consumers are just better informed these days (especially in electronics) and we know that $4000-$8000 market could be offering allot more than it currently is. For $1000, you can get amazing compact s35mm cameras that fit in you're hands and shoots to a decent codec for web-distribution (even theatrical in some cases) And for $40,000 you can get something amazing like the Red Epic, and shoot 5k 120fps for super-cinema application. Now, in the $2,500 to $25,000 area, there's quite a gap... it's either a F3, FS100, AF, all shooting basically a $1000 DSLR-level codec (so why buy one?), or a tiny-chip broadcast camcorder that doesn't even look remotely cinematic. Not many options here.
 
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It's not a sense of entitlement, it is a palm to the face. "You were so close! Why did you cripple it like that?"

Disclaimer #1: You have every right to start up a company and make whatever you want and price it at whatever you want.
Disclaimer #2: You owe me nothing. You don't have to make what I ask you to make. You don't have to price it at what I want you to price it.

Wait, Disclaimer #1 and #2 are the same.

Disclaimer #3: If I don't like what you're selling, or the price you're selling it at, I don't have to buy it.

HOWEVER:

If it is apparent that you are merely crippling your cam to enforce product tiering --- turning off a feature that would cost you pennies per unit to turn on --- or if you are just making dumb decisions because it's obvious you did not vet your prototypes with even a couple dozen of the thousands of professionals willing to give free advice --- then we have every right to talk about it online.
 
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combatentropy said:
If it is apparent that you are merely crippling your cam to enforce product tiering --- turning off a feature that would cost you pennies per unit to turn on --- or if you are just making dumb decisions because it's obvious you did not vet your prototypes with even a couple dozen of the thousands of professionals willing to give free advice --- then we have every right to talk about it online.
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+100 ...this is the real "qft". Preventing people from speculating on markets/products and not allowing us to voice opinions because "we're not entitled to it" falls under Fascism.
 
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