Rough cost estimate

jcskeeter

jcskeeter

Well-known member
Hey there avid peeps. I am mainly an FCP editor and know pretty extensively what kind of costs go into building a suite as most of the costs are advertised publicly.

I was just wondering if someone could fill me in on what a rough estimate would be to purchase a new Avid media composer suite. Fully built with all necessary break out boxes, tower and anything else.

I am totally just looking for a rough number for comparison reasons and don't really feel like going through Avid just to get a rough number. If anyone has rough numbers for a few of the other Avid setups that would be appreciated as well. Thank you for any answers.
 
Last I heard a new Media Composer Adrenaline system is around $25k. I don't know what all that entails, but I assume it would be bare bones and you'd still need storage, a reference monitor, etc.,.

-A
 
alright, thanks. I would think it would be easier to find prices but I guess not. oh well. Thanks.
 
Standalone Media Composer software is around $5k. There is used software (Xpress Pro and older) on eBay. Just make absolutely sure it has the dongle. I was able to pick up a used Mojo there for a decent price. And it works. The only difference in Mojo's is whether you need SDI or not. The SDI Mojo also gives you more audio options (channels) than the 'other' Mojo.

You're Final Cut going Avid. I'm Avid that went Final Cut and then back again. I like 'em both and it's nice to take on jobs for either. So, now I run both on a dual-boot Mac and they share Medea VideoRaid's for storage.

I think a rough estimate is hard because it just depends on how far you go with storage and which software you go with. Videoguys.com carries Avid stuff that's usually a little less than someone like B&H.

Of course, you could always get a government client or take a class and get the academic discount. Same software but it only costs $295. Wait. Did I just type that??!?

I'd be curious to hear what it is you need to do and that might determine what goes in the suite. Broadcast? DV-only? How much horsepower do you need on the Avid side?
 
Some Avid prices here:
http://www.videoguys.com/mcfamily.html
Your question is vague. It's like asking how much does a car cost? What's the make and model? It's easy to nail down a price for Premiere CS3, Vega or FCS - one product (or a bunde) at a single price. Avid offers everything from a free program to a quarter million dollar finishing suite with networked storage. If you want a break down of the price of every product in the line up you'll to need to pick up the phone and call a reseller.
 
Thanks fevercity, we produce two outdoor television shows which includes 26 shows a year and a array of other things from commercials to custom productions. right now we have two media composer suites (each have the PCI expander?, digidesign BOB and a G4 mac with version 11 media composer). We have a avid unity, not exactly sure how much storage but it is 2 rows of hard drives. I think they're like the 32 giggers or something like that. So 600 gbs roughly. (yeah, it's old, I know) Anyway, so thats what we have.

We are in the process of looking at our options for upgrading. I'm actually the main (and only) FCP editor at the shop and have been put in charge of doing research on our options.s

milksac, completely understandable about being vague. I guess I'm just trying to put my finger on what the equivalent setup would be compared to what we have now (see explanation above). Is media composer with a mojo BOB stack up to what we have now, which is going on 5-6 years old? Do they still have a version of media composer that has all of the extra expanders and big boxes attached to the tower? Have the computer come such a log way that avid can just rely on the power of the CPU and a bunch of ram?

I figured my question would get a little tricky, that is why I am really just interested in a rough setup with storage price. Basically if you were standing around with a bunch of people and someone asks, "Hey how much do you think that would cost?" That's all I'm looking for. Thank you very much for the info you have already provided though.
 
I think the Mojo is only for the Xpress series. I'm pretty sure you'd have to go with an Adrenaline setup for Media Composer, but I may be wrong.
 
Hey, Tom:
I guess my Mojo's not supposed to work then. Oh, well.... Seems to be working fine. When I launched it with MC for the 1st time, it updated itself and has been good-to-go ever since. I've added the component cable kit and RS control with a USB / Rosetta Stone adapter combo. The SDI option would be ideal but I got the Mojo for cheap and I'm running an older Beta deck anyway (BVW-70).

And jcskeeter:
Will you cannibalize the other Avid suites or want a fresh build-out? I ask only because you have the storage and, probably, monitors. You no longer need a BOB (in the traditional big-box old school sense). Mojo's small and it's for capture, digital cuts and monitoring though - it's just not huge like they used to be. I believe $1,495 and $2,495 (for SDI) from Videoguys.com. They also have bundles w/ Composer or Xpress. The software works fine as a standalone. You probably want to steer clear of Adrenaline. I don't know too many people that are happy with that purchase. I've definitely had issues with the ones I've used.

I had tricked out a Mac for Final Cut and it's the fastest Composer I've ever cut on. Renders quick. In the past, we budgeted time for that lunch render, maybe did an overnight render for a big show. Not so anymore. Get RAM but I believe there's a limit to how much it will actually use.

Plus - it's always good hearing about older systems. That's part of the reason I get so bent out-of-shape about the Avid vs. FCP threads. I've mentioned elsewhere that one client's still running a ABVB Media Composer 7.1.1 (Mac OS8) that's more rock-solid than any Final Cut system I've ever used. Not trying to start a whole other flame war on that topic though. So - disregard that last dig.
 
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We would probably start from scratch, the monitors aren't that great (the comp monitors). Plus we would have to upgrade to more storage and would probly replace rather than extend. Well most likely we are looking at FCP, guess I was looking for a comparison so that we can spend more on the FCP suites and still be under what it would cost for Avid, if you know what I mean. That's interesting to know that the traditional "big" BOB setup isn't really used any more?

So what's with the Adrenaline setups? I find this interesting that people aren't liking the setups. What kind of issues have you dealt with? So basically the adrenaline setups are the only ones that use the "big" BOB anymore.

Yeah our Avids are going on their last leg. One of our suites has a frequent intermittent problem with it heating up and turning the video posterized, so a card or something is apparently going to completely fry one of these days. Plus we have had multiple drives repaired on the unity in the past year.
 
The big BOB's are still used for the 'bigger' setups - like the Adrenaline. Every machine is different but I've had issues with needing multiple reboots throughout the day, losing deck communication, on-the-fly trimming not as responsive and just bad voodoo that I haven't had with older Media Composers.

The Final Cut price-point is what finally drove me to pursue it as a broadcast vehicle. Especially being able to use 3rd party vendors (AJA, Mackie Control, etc.) for hardware options. I do still prefer Avid though. Not everyone's cup of tea I guess.
 
If you want a big turnkey suite and have the cash to drop on MC Adrenaline and other like systems check out these guys.

www.tvprogear.com

They do turnkey Avid and FCP suites for rent and purchase. If you have that kind of resources.
 
jcskeeter said:
...guess I was looking for a comparison so that we can spend more on the FCP suites and still be under what it would cost for Avid, if you know what I mean.
Click to expand...

In your cost comparison of FCP vs. Avid, don't forget to include the expense of extra editing time for working on FCP.

I'm a professional editor and I've worked extensively on both FCP and Avid, and the bottom line is that FCP is about 30% slower than the Avid. I could give you many examples of how functions that take one or two keystrokes on the Avid take twice that many on FCP.
 
I could give you many examples of how functions that take one or two keystrokes on the Avid take twice that many on FCP.
Click to expand...

I would love to hear some of these examples. I am an Avid edit with nearly 10 years experience. Every time I have to edit on FCP I just can't wrap my head around it. I would love for a more experienced cutter to explain some of these differences so I might share them with my FCP evangelist friends.
 
Trim mode's a joke. Media management blows. Drag-&-drop mousin' around? Gimme a break. Wait - that's a whole other thread topic.

Bear in mind, jcskeeter is a FCP guy pricing out an Avid suite. Probably knows his way around the app.

I'm not a big Adrenaline fan and have been pretty happy w/ software-only Composer. Some of the numbers being tossed about (grinner's $45k and 1/2-price offer) are a little much. I think you could do it for $15k if you know how to shop.
 
Jim2000 said:
In your cost comparison of FCP vs. Avid, don't forget to include the expense of extra editing time for working on FCP.

I'm a professional editor and I've worked extensively on both FCP and Avid, and the bottom line is that FCP is about 30% slower than the Avid. I could give you many examples of how functions that take one or two keystrokes on the Avid take twice that many on FCP.
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:huh:

There's already an Avid/FCP pissing contest a few threads down so please don't turn this into another one.


-A
 
adkimery said:
:huh:

There's already an Avid/FCP pissing contest a few threads down so please don't turn this into another one.


-A
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I'm not trying to. The thing is, when you're paying your editors $650 to $700 a day, the cost of your editing equipment is not necessarily the most expensive part of your budget. If you're trying to set up a post production operation like JCSKEETER is apparently doing, then you need to factor in the time it takes as well as the cost of the equipment.

There is no question that one can edit a tv show or a movie using FCP, but in my experience, it will take longer than it will on an Avid.
 
Hard to quantify such an intangible when it comes to an equipment purchase budget though.

That can be operator-specific. Personally, I am faster on Avid. I've worked w/ guys that absolutely crank on Final Cut. Then, of course, you have 'editors' that are equally awful on both apps. I don't know that I'd want to explain the handicapping to the people cutting the checks.
 
Jim2000 said:
I'm not trying to. The thing is, when you're paying your editors $650 to $700 a day, the cost of your editing equipment is not necessarily the most expensive part of your budget. If you're trying to set up a post production operation like JCSKEETER is apparently doing, then you need to factor in the time it takes as well as the cost of the equipment.

There is no question that one can edit a tv show or a movie using FCP, but in my experience, it will take longer than it will on an Avid.
Click to expand...
Saying "in my experience..." is a lot less inflammatory, not to mention accurate, than a hyperbolic, matter-of-fact statement that using FCP will undoubtedly drop your productivity by 30%. Just tryin' to help avoid a flame war. :beer:


-A
 
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