rolling shutter hxp300?

And don't forget, if you have some POS tripod for your existing camera, the HPX300 will weigh in around 14-20 lbs depending on lens used, batteries, accessories, filters, matte box, rod and rails mount. Based upon what is available, you would probably want to budget at least $2,000.00 for a low end tripod that can handle this camera and really around $4,000.00 to $6,000.00 to do it in style with a Sachtler, O'Connor or Miller.

Dan
 
Justyn said:
and will there be an updated P2store type device or harddisk recorder?
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No, and no.

Well, yes, but no.

There won't be an updated P2 Store, and there will never be a hard disk recorder. AVC-Intra doesn't stream out the firewire port so you can't ever have a firestore-type device.

But, yes, there's both an updated P2 Store and an external recorder, the P2 Portable (HPG20). It's an SDI recorder that does AVC-Intra. But it records it to P2 cards, so it's not going to be an alternative recording media. But it does control hard disks and let you offload to terabyte drives or larger, so it totally overcomes the limitations of the P2 Store.
 
Very cool. Are you going to be buying one Barry? I know the rolling shutter thing might be a deal breaker for some.. and it certainly wouldn't be ideal for my sports stuff and whatnot, but I might be most interested in terms of it's more filmlike DOF due to the lens and such. I really am not a fan of the 35mm adapters and would love to bypass that whole expense and workflow... So I think that not having to have to get that 35mm set-up is like putting 2k towards this cam.
 
This camera has exactly the same DOF as the HVX200. Both are 1/3" chips. You'll get shallower DOF with the longer lens, but you'll have to be further back from your subject, to get it. To get the 35mm DOF, you'll still need to get one of those adapters.
 
Don't forget that to get that shallower look, you are increasing the potential for noticeable-to-even obnoxious skew. This is the curse of small chip rolling shutter CMOS. All of them have this issue at long focal lengths.
 
Justyn said:
Very cool. Are you going to be buying one Barry?
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Not sure, although I'm thinking much more about it now that we've narrowed down the jello reasons. For the kinds of things I do, that wouldn't really be any manner of problem; most of what we're doing nowadays is greenscreen on a tripod, and a 300 would extremely exceedingly excel at that. But then again, my current 170 is doing just fine with that task, so -- do I really need to upgrade? Still debating...

but I might be most interested in terms of it's more filmlike DOF due to the lens and such.
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It has the same DOF as your HMC150, at least until you zoom past 51mm; the range from 51mm to 77mm is going to give you slightly shallower DOF. Where the DOF should really shine is if/when someone comes up with a 1/3" relay lens for an adapter like my Letus Ultimate; that would be a pretty nifty combination.

I really am not a fan of the 35mm adapters and would love to bypass that whole expense and workflow... So I think that not having to have to get that 35mm set-up is like putting 2k towards this cam.
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No, because the DOF is the same. If you want the shallow DOF look, you need a large imaging area, which you get by either buying a bigger-chip camera (like the D90 or EOS 5D Mk II or GH1) or by using an adapter.
 
Elton said:
This is the curse of small chip rolling shutter CMOS. All of them have this issue at long focal lengths.
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It's the curse of *all* rolling shutter CMOS. It's certainly not limited to small-chip cameras. The Infinity has 2/3" chips and it does the same skewing. The Red One has a Super35-sized chip and it does the skew. It all has to do with the relative magnification on the lens, not the size of the chip. So far chip size seems unrelated to the amount of jello; the D90 and EOS 5D have *way* bigger chips than the EX1 or HPX300, yet they do jello a thousand times worse than the EX1 or HPX300.
 
Indeed.... thanks for the clarification. They have made a very promising camera. A good ENG style shooter...
 
puredrifting said:
And don't forget, if you have some POS tripod for your existing camera, the HPX300 will weigh in around 14-20 lbs depending on lens used, batteries, accessories, filters, matte box, rod and rails mount. Based upon what is available, you would probably want to budget at least $2,000.00 for a low end tripod that can handle this camera and really around $4,000.00 to $6,000.00 to do it in style with a Sachtler, O'Connor or Miller.

Dan
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Got the tripod already... Either way... I think this would also yield a higher rental rate and maybe a different type of production work...
 
One of the most common mistakes I see over and over again in this business are people who buy gear in the hopes of renting it to pay for it. Big mistake. Unless you have a signed contract and a deposit, it is nothing but wishful thinking. I made this mistake 20 years ago when I first started out and learned from it. Pros sell themselves, not their gear. If people are hiring me for my gear, I am a rental company. I don't want to be a rental company, I want people to hire me for my eye, knowledge and ability. I can shoot a project on anything they want from Mini DV to 35mm. I try to avoid jobs where people are hiring me because I have "X" camera because there are a million other people in LA with the same camera who are younger, live in their parents basement rent free and don't have two mortgages, private school for their kids to pay and a wife who thinks that money should be poured from her purse like water from an Evian bottle ;-) It's a business and many a business has been sunk by the "buy it and the work will come because we have it" syndrome. While the Orlando market is different than LA, it can't be that different.

Have a conversation with the few thousand RED One owners who thought the same way and have had to take a bath in dumping their RED One packages that they went out on a financial limb for. The RED One rental market is totally oversaturated. With some careful wrangling, you can shoot with a RED One in LA cheaper than many pay for an HVX200 and a Letus from one of the rental houses. People are desparate, the rental rates dropped like a rock and now that many have experienced the RED post workflow, the camera, while still capable of great images, has quietly lost the overhyped factor that it had for the first year.

If I was shooting a one off TV project film style, I would rent an HPX2700 or 3700 easily over the RED.

The HPX300 is not an expensive piece of gear for a pro, but it is not the right tool for every type of shooting. I will only buy one if I can keep my 170 because I shoot movie premiers, handheld long lens on television and movie sets, etc. The 300 is perfect for interviews, tabletop and many other situations I shoot so I would love one for those shoots but for other types of shoots I do, tracking high speed subjects on long lens, CMOS with a rolling shutter is not the right tool.

Good luck,

Dan
 
Barry_Green said:
It's the curse of *all* rolling shutter CMOS. It's certainly not limited to small-chip cameras. The Infinity has 2/3" chips and it does the same skewing. The Red One has a Super35-sized chip and it does the skew. It all has to do with the relative magnification on the lens, not the size of the chip. So far chip size seems unrelated to the amount of jello; the D90 and EOS 5D have *way* bigger chips than the EX1 or HPX300, yet they do jello a thousand times worse than the EX1 or HPX300.
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You're absolutely correct, but I'm a bit misunderstood here. What I meant (or maybe more accurately *implied*) is that anyone wanting to get a dramatic shallow DOF look with a 1/3" rolling shutter CMOS camera is especially asking for skew issues because it requires extreme amounts of telephoto to get better selective focus...and that's with a more optically compressed look too.

Of course it all depends on the amount of lens magnification and the relative movement in the scene, but there's a big difference in getting the look you want for things like interviews, drama, etc with a much bigger chip because you don't need as much telephoto. I
 
Does anyone knows if the "Skew Factor" improved in the 1080p 24p for the HPX 300 ?( i´m 2 days away to order it)
 
Rolling SHUTTER :

i had tried & tested the HPX300 in my limited ways & means during an exhibition. All I couldnt try & wanted to try out the camera as to how will rolling shutter play a spoilt sport when we shoot under Disco Lights (Dis scanners laser lights etc ) used by Disc Jockeys at various events/weddings etc.

For any idea as to what type of lighting issue I am talking about pls check out the link
mentioned under a VIMEO video.

JAN i hope you have some views....:Drogar-Mark-07(DBG)

http://www.vimeo.com/3773454
 
Just so everyone knows, the HPX300 will always have the skew, there is no magic fix. The camera uses CMOS and a rolling shutter. What the hope is is that Panasonic sometime introduces a firmware update that increases the scanning rate of the shutter, that would reduce some of the skewing in 1080 24p in particular.

As Barry's test proved, the HPX300 already has considerably less skewing that the Sony EX1 and EX3 when shooting in 720 24p but considerably more when shooting 1080 24p. As of today, live with it. Nobody knows when or even IF this fix will ever happen. You should buy this camera with your eyes open, it is not wise to spend this kind of money EXPECTING that the fix will happen. It may or it may not and nobody knows the extent to which the expected fix will improve things.

Caveat emptor.

Dan
 
I lived with Red's skew. It wasn't too bad. And, no doubt, I'll live with the skew from the HPX300. Can't really beat it for the price. It's not often that I need to get a shot, at extreme telephoto, where I'm quickly panning side to side, shooting a lamp post.

Just hoping to hear if improvements are in the works, or not.
 
Every rolling shutter camera has issues with skew, wobble, and partial exposure. And they always will have.

The 300 does as well or better than the EX1/EX3 in terms of skew performance in all modes EXCEPT 1080/24p, where it is currently quite a bit more skewy/rubbery. Panasonic engineers are well aware of the issue. They are committed to studying it. There may or may not be a firmware update forthcoming. I would say that Dan's advice is, as always, practical and prudent. If you're shooting 1080/60i, 720/24p, 720/60p, etc., then the 300 is one of the least skewy cameras on the market. If you're shooting 1080/24p, then there's lots of skew and it may never get fixed. It may, but it may not. So, caveat emptor.
 
Kenn Christenson said:
Just hoping to hear if improvements are in the works, or not.
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They are committed to studying the issue. If it's possible to fix it, I have every confidence that they will, and that they would make any such fix retroactive to all purchasers. However, that is not any sort of official stated Panasonic policy or anything, that's just based on me talking with those folks and knowing how seriously they take things such as this.

So - they're looking at it. They're working on it. But no updates have been given as to whether there's anything they can do about it or not.
 
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