Rode Wireless Go II

Paul F said:
Regarding the patent, Rode is likely a much bigger company with more cash to burn in court.
Click to expand...
Bigger than Teac/Tascam? Zaxcom's initial patent infringement case defendant. Teac settled to not sell in the US and it was not even a recording Tx, it merly had a throughput to an external Tx.
 
Paul F said:
Regarding the patent, Rode is likely a much bigger company with more cash to burn in court. It could be fun. Maybe they are paying a licensing fee to Zaxcom. Maybe the fact that it is recorded internally and not on an SD card gets around the Zaxcom claims.

What magic does Rode have that they can get such distances out of a well-known technology with no external antenna (assuming you are operating with the internal mic) while no one else does it?
Click to expand...

brettsherman said:
I suspect it is either lack of SD card or the fact that recording is not initiated by the receiver, but an app. This is even more thoughtfully designed than Zaxcom products. The fact that you can set it up to automatically record whenever transmitting and as soon as it is filled up, it starts recording over old files. That's genius and exactly what a backup recording should do. THat means I never need to download files unless I have dropout. It's basically a 7hr buffer of audio. It just goes to show you how much innovation Zaxcom has single-handedly killed in audio. No sympathy. Live by a technicality, die by a technicality.
Click to expand...


I always forget about licensing, but Zaxcom(Glenn Sanders) is on the record as saying they are willing to.

I don't know about all of them, but Rode is probably bigger/has deeper pockets than Lectrosonics and Tentacle, so they could be willing to play for blood.

That would be interesting if non-removable media is the key... The Lectro Tx's and Tentacle's both use microSD. Although, Tentacle could definitely get away with "fixed media". The included 16GB micro SD card that comes pre-installed in the Track records over 30 hours at 24-bit/48kHz and over 23 hours at 32-bit float/48kHz. The Tentacle also allows for starting and stoping recording via their app. And as a matter of fact, I have the physical switch on the body disabled, except for power ON/OFF functionality.

Patents are a game of loopholes and technicalities. Coupled with an outdated patent system staffed with people that don't fully always understand the things that they are granting patents for.

And on a side note(need to update the original thread), the splitter cables that I had built for my lav's to simultaneously feed my Lectrosonics transmitters and Tentacle Track E's are now working(Thanks to Glen Trew jumping in and getting his hands dirty and the rest of the friendly staff at Trew Audio/Remote Audio in Nashville). So I now have the ability to have wireless audio going to the bag/camera AND a local timecode sync'd back-up in 24 or 32-bit float, in-case of RF interference.
 
Rick R said:
Bigger than Teac/Tascam? Zaxcom's initial patent infringement case defendant. Teac settled to not sell in the US and it was not even a recording Tx, it merly had a throughput to an external Tx.
Click to expand...

Good thoughts. So I did some quick googling (always risky) and find:

Rode's parent company Freedman has annual revenue around $73 million USD
https://www.dnb.com/business-direct...pty_ltd.e926003075b1baf8d144cf29df72f56e.html

Teac Japan appears to have annual revenue around $133 million USD
https://www.dnb.com/business-direct...oration.308f42a8c03b9466085c094eefe82883.html

But the Teac America subsidiary has annual revenue around $7 million USD
https://www.dnb.com/business-direct...ica_inc.7cd78dc915bc636709f1390bee6f8e84.html

And Zaxcom has annual revenue around $2 million USD
https://www.dnb.com/business-direct...com_inc.088a4302452acf0fe3ec070d7338c675.html


So my harebrained thought is the patent and the product segment is REALLY important to Zaxcom, but not very important to either Teac US or Teac Japan. So for them, why fight something that may have a significant downside, but really doesn't have a significant upside? I mean, how many sales of their Tascam DR-10L recorder did they lose in the US because it wouldn't pass through audio?

But for Rode, wireless systems are arguably a more important market segment, especially in terms of future growth. And they seem to have a lot of money, esp. compared to Zaxcom. So maybe they feel it's worth fighting...or they think they can bully Zaxcom, or they could afford to quietly pay Zaxcom a license fee.

I guess we'll find out soon, huh?
 
Yeah, beyond wireless it being a *32-bit float* on-board recorder seems to make it equivalent to the new Tascam recorders, and a replacement for the Tascam recorders, but with wireless monitoring/recording to boot.

At $300 for that, I'm really wondering if there would really be any reason to choose the AVX product line up.
 
Rick R said:
Bigger than Teac/Tascam? Zaxcom's initial patent infringement case defendant. Teac settled to not sell in the US and it was not even a recording Tx, it merly had a throughput to an external Tx.
Click to expand...

Good point. But I'm always up for a court battle. We have to keep the lawyers off the streets after all.
 
Jim Feeley said:
Good thoughts. So I did some quick googling (always risky) and find:

Rode's parent company Freedman has annual revenue around $73 million USD
https://www.dnb.com/business-direct...pty_ltd.e926003075b1baf8d144cf29df72f56e.html

Teac Japan appears to have annual revenue around $133 million USD
https://www.dnb.com/business-direct...oration.308f42a8c03b9466085c094eefe82883.html

But the Teac America subsidiary has annual revenue around $7 million USD
https://www.dnb.com/business-direct...ica_inc.7cd78dc915bc636709f1390bee6f8e84.html

And Zaxcom has annual revenue around $2 million USD
https://www.dnb.com/business-direct...com_inc.088a4302452acf0fe3ec070d7338c675.html
Click to expand...

Geez, $2 mil. Most companies won't get up in the morning for that kind of money. I figured it was small, but not that small. But who knows how they came up with those estimates. Indeed then, any competitive edge is really important to them and Lectrosonics as we've seen the fights in court as recently as last year for a 10 year old patent.

With that kind of revenue, they could easily burn a two figure percentage of their revenue in a court battle.
 
I may have seen something that reported wrong. Looks like you can export in 32-bit float but not record in 32-bit float, doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?

Via the app, each transmitter provides an onboard audio recorder offering up to seven hours of uncompressed recording (24-bit / 48 kHz WAV) or 24 hours of compressed recording, perfect for worry-free backup recording or a fast and easy way to capture sound from your subjects. Export files in various formats such as MP3 or WAV (16-, 24-, or 32-bit float) with date and time stamp information as well as automatic markers anywhere the transmitter-receiver link was broken.
Click to expand...
 
D&B says Lectro annual revenue is over $25mil(!)(found another reference stating $30M). D&B also states Sound Devices annual sales as $3.52M(2nd reference saying $7.3M). And Tentacle is $1.14M.

Now, revenue and profits are two different things, but Lectro appears to actually be a pretty heavy hitter, especially compared to Zax and SD.

If anything, this shows JUST how niche these companies and devices really are. And just for good measure/reference, D&B pegs Apple at $274 Billion in annual sales.
 
Paul F said:
Geez, $2 mil. Most companies won't get up in the morning for that kind of money. I figured it was small, but not that small. But who knows how they came up with those estimates. Indeed then, any competitive edge is really important to them and Lectrosonics as we've seen the fights in court as recently as last year for a 10 year old patent.

With that kind of revenue, they could easily burn a two figure percentage of their revenue in a court battle.
Click to expand...

Looking at Zaxcom and Tentacle, yeah... There are Mom & Pop retail stores(1-5 locations) crushing those sales figures(and that's just sales/revenue, NOT actual profit. Some of these companies are probably just above breaking even.). One of my friends that I shoot with, not that long ago, was invoicing seven figures a year.
 
filmguy123 said:
I may have seen something that reported wrong. Looks like you can export in 32-bit float but not record in 32-bit float, doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose?
Click to expand...

The only real benefit of 32-bit float is during recording. I have no idea why you would record in a lower bit rate and then create a 32-bit float file.
 
Ya, those DNB numbers could be way off, especially for Zaxcom, and perhaps also for Sound Devices, Lectro, and others. But coarsely, I think this is likely:

Teac/Tascam - didn't care enough to fight to the death over one feature in a niche product for them. Not worth a protracted legal battle.

Lectrosonics- While bigger than Zaxcom, is a direct competitor (unlike Tascam and Rode) and makes almost all their revenue from wireless systems (unlike Tascam and Rode), so a legal battle could be long and have really serious risks for whomever doesn't prevail. And Zaxcom probably wouldn't want to license their patent to Lectro (or would set the price so high that Lectro wouldn't want it).

Audio Ltd (owned by Sound Devices) - has recording transmitters, but not in the US. I'd guess they think a legal battle wouldn't necessarily go their way, or even if they did win, the cost would be higher than what they'd gain in extra sales in the US.

Rode- No matter what the actual numbers, they're way bigger than Zaxcom. And unlike Tascam, wireless features matter to them. And unlike Lectro and Audio Ltd, they don't directly compete with Zaxcom. So perhaps Rode can afford to fight...or as I said perhaps they can afford to make a licensing deal with Zaxcom that Zaxcom is more willing to accept than they would from Lectro et al since Rode isn't a direct competitor. Perhaps sort of like Rode did with Rycote for their Lyre suspensions...

Zaxcom- whatever their actual revenue, that patent (and their other patents) really really matters. So it makes sense for them to vigorously defend it.

Deity- No idea how they'll fit in and what they'll do. They're in an interesting position, I think...
 
David Saraceno said:
Most of the negative reviews I've read relate to lose of signal when not facing the receiver.
Click to expand...

Probably why you see most of their promotional pics with the transmitters clipped onto the front of people's shirts and jackets, fully visible.

Actually saw a local TV station interview, sometime last year, and they were using one. It was obviously a "VJ/MMJ" doing the story, but the interview subject had the transmitter clipped onto their top of the shirt using the in-built mic.
 
You guys are giving me a headache with two threads on the same topic. I like you filmguy, but Martin Scorsese beat you to the scoop. Can we keep the conversation to Martin's thread for us old people? Hey, if you don't like old people, ... you know, those horrible Boomers, and want to tell me to take a hike, I understand. I had my day in the sun.
 
Paul F said:
You guys are giving me a headache with two threads on the same topic. I like you filmguy, but Martin Scorsese beat you to the scoop. Can we keep the conversation to Martin's thread for us old people? Hey, if you don't like old people, ... you know, those horrible Boomers, and want to tell me to take a hike, I understand. I had my day in the sun.
Click to expand...

Ha, I didn't even realize there was another thread - I just had to go search to find it. We generally keep all new product announcements here, not subdivided into the topical sub-forums. Apologies for the dupe. If only we had any mods left to merge the threads :D

For continued discussion, please redirect here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?369585-Rode-Wireless-Go-II
 
Yeah, Rode, even though they make audio products, isn't a direct competitor in the market segment that Zaxcom(or Lectrosonics) serves. You could buy about five or six of those new Rode Go II's for what just one Zaxcom transmitter costs. Even a lone Sanken COS-11 costs more.

If Rode didn't license Zax's patent and the US model's will in-fact have dual transmit/record ability, I'd love to see them duke it out. Maybe this is the opening that all the other manufacturers need. Especially if Rode were to win.

And I STILL don't understand how Zaxcom is able to make manufacturers turn off audio outputs on the "mini" recorders, though...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top