Rode mic or zoom recorder?

T

t_k

New member
I'm getting into filmmaking as a hobby, and as such my resources are limited. So...

Am I better off getting a zoom h4nSP recorder (or other similarly priced) and using the mic on that, or getting a rode mic (which is good for that price range?) and using my phone as a recorder?

OR! Am I better off getting a cheap rode compact mic and the zoom h1?

Thanks, and sorry for my newbness to all this.
 
Let me first ask a few questions...
What camera will you be shooting on....why?
Do you want to shoot 'single' or 'double' system... why?
How do you know the recordings are going onto the recorder OK....?
Why have you chosen those recorders and microphones as a first choice...?
Have you done a google search on 'problems' with those recorders and mics, and combinations there of...?

I'm not being nasty, but work through those questions and I think you will come up with a much better solution than a lot of new people into the industry.... And you will probably save a lot of $$$$ and heart ache in the process.
 
  • Like
Reactions: t_k
Hi, t_k, and welcome to DVXUser!

First, it would be helpful to know which camera you are using. The camera's own audio inputs, outputs, and recording capabilities are unknown to us at this point and may help us guide you in a better direction.

Second, you ought to take some time to read through the yellow stickies at the top of the sound forum, specifically Audio 101 and the links it has there, to get acquainted with some of the basics of sound.

Knowing that this is hobby-level, there are some decent and inexpensive ways to up your sound game. But again, not knowing the camera, it's hard to point you in the right direction.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: t_k
A low cost lavaliere mic and the zoom would allow getting a mic close on medium and wide shots... of course you can't monitor with that set-up. Other than that, a boom/mic plugged directly into the camera is relatively easy with no syncing in post. Yes, read the Sticky threads.
 
  • Like
Reactions: t_k
If you're only going to get one mic, I wouldn't recommend a lav. A decent shotgun is going to be better for versatility. I would recommend getting an actual microphone if possible. A recorder is nice, but if you can't afford a good one I'd say go opposite and get the cheapest thing you possibly can. Otherwise feeding into your camera is certainly going to be easier. And Google is full of answers to questions like this; I recommend doing some reading so that you know what you're doing when you do it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: t_k
A bit inline with OzGizmo I think you need to answer some questions for your self first.

My phrasing would be that you need to work backward from where you want to end up.

Your doing this as a hobby. So what kind of films do you want to make? Where are you planning to show/ post them?
Is it just for laughs with friends or are you planning to show to people you don't know?

On the one extreme I would go as cheap as possible till you do a few and decide then what you want to invest in.
In that track the in camera mic might be OK, or something like the TakStar SGC-598 (a mic like the Rode VMP but at about $30) would be fine.

If you want/ need better production values then you need to step up a bit but the first step tends to be a big one.

So again I would do a couple and see how you like it. Your first films will be bad, probably, but they will show you a lot about what not to do and about how much work it is just to do something "fun" that is good enough to show others with out being embarrassed. It's not nearly as easy as most folks think to do a decent short, and you can do one with a consumer camcorder and it's built in mic if you plan for that.

THe "next step" has a lot to do with what kind of films you want to do. Hong Kong Action films are often shot with out any production sound (mostly because they are all dubbed anyway), so for that you want to invest in post sound not production sound. If you want to make documentaries then portability and minimal crew become really important, if your doing dramas on a set then a good indoor mic and a boom pole are pretty important, along with a boom op and someone paying attention to sound exclusively. If you want to "do it all" then the $$$ for that first step can be really large.
 
  • Like
Reactions: t_k
Stay away from the Rode NTG1 or NTG2, they might seem good on the costing but they have a very low audio output level which means you need to drive the preamp in the camera or recorder harder which brings up lots of noise and hiss.
 
Hi all, time for a longer reply but first I want to genuinely thank you all for the help so far.

I am using a Canon 60D and have researched quite a bit. From what I understand, the Canons recorder is not very good (and also lacks the proper jack, iirc). All the research pointed in buying a recorder and either a lav or shotgun mic. I decided on the shotgun/boom because, as Agafilm says, it is much more versatile than a lav. So all signs seemed to point to a rode mic and zoom recorder.

This is just for fun, a hobby. But like hobbies I want to do the best I can (within reason), like a model builder who wants to be as perfect as possible.

I like the idea of getting cheaper equipment. I fear that, for example, I might buy a mic and it winds up being no better (or worse) than the on-camera mic. I suppose I feel vilnerable since I don't know much about it. I will for certain look into the TakStar that Noiz2 recommended. Ideally I'd like both the recorder and mic, so if anyone has any other ideas for cheap alternatives to the zoom and rode, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks in advance, all. My first post and you guys already rock.
 
For what it's worth: when we put a Rode Video Pro mic on the 70D the difference in audio quality was immense. I'm pretty sure the 60D and 70D have similar internal mics which are lousy. B&H has lots of reviews on that Rode mic. Most rate it highly (I do too) but it does cost a fair bit more than the TacStar Noiz2 suggested.

Using a separate recorder (I have those too) works well but it's more work to set up and you have to synch your audio in post. Although I haven't run into it myself, I have heard of people who have trouble with cheaper recorders in that the audio starts in synch with the video (in post) but then gets out of synch. I think that's because the camera and recorder aren't recording at exactly the same speed but there are tons of really experienced folks here who can set you right on that. Using a boom and mic and recorder is extra gear that needs to be set up and operated. One benefit of a recorder over a 60D is that you can monitor your audio - I don't think the 60D has a headphone jack. I guess part of the equation will be what kind of audio you're wanting to capture and whether or not you're a one-man band.

Like you I'm a hobbyist too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: t_k
ED299 said:
For what it's worth: when we put a Rode Video Pro mic on the 70D the difference in audio quality was immense. I'm pretty sure the 60D and 70D have similar internal mics which are lousy. B&H has lots of reviews on that Rode mic. Most rate it highly (I do too) but it does cost a fair bit more than the TacStar Noiz2 suggested.

Using a separate recorder (I have those too) works well but it's more work to set up and you have to synch your audio in post. Although I haven't run into it myself, I have heard of people who have trouble with cheaper recorders in that the audio starts in synch with the video (in post) but then gets out of synch. I think that's because the camera and recorder aren't recording at exactly the same speed but there are tons of really experienced folks here who can set you right on that. Using a boom and mic and recorder is extra gear that needs to be set up and operated. One benefit of a recorder over a 60D is that you can monitor your audio - I don't think the 60D has a headphone jack. I guess part of the equation will be what kind of audio you're wanting to capture and whether or not you're a one-man band.

Like you I'm a hobbyist too.
Click to expand...

"one man band" is the perfect way to put it. Trying to learn Blender, Resolve, Cinematography, Lighting, etc etc at the same time, and then audio gets tossed into the mix. But I enjoy it, so no complaints.

I liked Noizs idea baout using cheaper stuff to see what I like/don't like. So while I'd rather Hollywood quality, I'll settle for less. But the recorder thing worries me because fixing different speeds in post seems like it might be a PITA. Interested to see what others have to input. Thanks.
 
The only way the to get two or more devices 'drift-free' is with a gen-lock system. Even pro cameras/audio recorders will drift apart. Under ten minute takes are usually not an issue, even with the budget stuff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: t_k
Okay, decision made. I will get the $30 Takstar mic that Noiz recommended, and the Tascam DR22WL recorder ($119, just a few dollars more than the zoom H1). So I get both instead of choosing. Yay!

Thanks again for the help everyone. :)
 
One great thing about the H1 over the DR22WL is that you can use it for a wired lav mic. Or at least easier to get a clip and hide.
 
goodgoings said:
One great thing about the H1 over the DR22WL is that you can use it for a wired lav mic. Or at least easier to get a clip and hide.
Click to expand...

What do you mean? It has a line in/mic jack. Why wouldn't you be able to use a lav with it?
 
The "drift" issue is real, but on most current equipment most of the time it's not an issue unless you are doing really long (as in over 10 minutes) takes. The internal clocks are just not perfect so they will be running at different speeds. In the past this was often a BIG problem on anything over a minute or two but today even the cheap clocks are pretty good "Most of the time".

I highly recommend you look into Magic Lantern for the Canon camera. Not sure if that camera has manual audio settings, if not ML will give them to you. It also has a ton of film friendly features that will make you filming a happier experience.

The TakStar is not a fantastic mic but it is a LOT better than the built in one. THe long term plus side is that even if you decide to go with dual system you can use it on the camera to get a better guide track for syncing to.

For you the biggest plus to getting the recorder is the ability to go record sounds to add into your films. It could also work for production recording but in a one man band hobby situation I wouldn't go dual system. I mean I have all the toys and for my learning shorts, which till I learn how to shoot are a hobby, I don't go dual. I guess if I was doing a lot of dialog I would consider it. But I'm trying to learn the camera and I know I can do sound when I need to so going dual is a layer of complexity that really would just get in the way of what my end goal is.

But that is me and my particular situation. I worked backward from that, which is again what I recommend. Figure out what you need to end up with, what the goal of the film is, and work backward from that. It really make a lot of decisions easier.

Good luck and enjoy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: t_k
I use an H1 with a lab sometimes. The nice thing is it's so small that I can get the 'talent' (usually family) to wear the hidden lav and pocket the H1 without it being a nuisance - it's small & light. Using the built in mic isn't always useful if you don't want your H1 in the picture.
 
  • Like
Reactions: t_k
Noiz2 said:
The "drift" issue is real, but on most current equipment most of the time it's not an issue unless you are doing really long (as in over 10 minutes) takes. The internal clocks are just not perfect so they will be running at different speeds. In the past this was often a BIG problem on anything over a minute or two but today even the cheap clocks are pretty good "Most of the time".

I highly recommend you look into Magic Lantern for the Canon camera. Not sure if that camera has manual audio settings, if not ML will give them to you. It also has a ton of film friendly features that will make you filming a happier experience.

The TakStar is not a fantastic mic but it is a LOT better than the built in one. THe long term plus side is that even if you decide to go with dual system you can use it on the camera to get a better guide track for syncing to.

For you the biggest plus to getting the recorder is the ability to go record sounds to add into your films. It could also work for production recording but in a one man band hobby situation I wouldn't go dual system. I mean I have all the toys and for my learning shorts, which till I learn how to shoot are a hobby, I don't go dual. I guess if I was doing a lot of dialog I would consider it. But I'm trying to learn the camera and I know I can do sound when I need to so going dual is a layer of complexity that really would just get in the way of what my end goal is.

But that is me and my particular situation. I worked backward from that, which is again what I recommend. Figure out what you need to end up with, what the goal of the film is, and work backward from that. It really make a lot of decisions easier.

Good luck and enjoy.
Click to expand...

Absolutely have had Magic Lantern for a while and love it for photography, and now for film. I'm ordering the items right after I type this so I thank you again, sir, you've been extremely helpful.
 
OzGizmo said:
Stay away from the Rode NTG1 or NTG2, they might seem good on the costing but they have a very low audio output level which means you need to drive the preamp in the camera or recorder harder which brings up lots of noise and hiss.
Click to expand...

True if you're using it with a Zoom H4n which used to be popular with folks.

But I use a Rode NTG2 with a Tascam DR-60D, which has massively superior pre amps over the poor pre amps in the Zoom H4n.

But yes, going with a MKE600 or similar could be a wise alternative choice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top