Rig sticks and steadi..

OK im trying to produce a cheap rig that is easy to modify by DIYers - hopefully im also chucking some general thoughts into the stabilisation pot that will be useful to all - be nice


Of course I would like sexy handles if I could source them

The rig is from 1/2 tube that is 12.7mm diameter

Handlebars are in the regon of 23-28mm diameter I beleive

to integrate 28mm handles would mean manufacture of different T joins which would mean another part and increase cost and complexity, stock issues , lead time, more raw meterials stocks - Im really learning what Z or RR have to go through with those little issues but can conquer them by sticking the engineering absolute of Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS) in the first instance - gucci version can come

I can see the need to grip a Red or Arri like a gorrila but the 5d is a tool that requires the most gentle touch

The handles work fine but I agree are aesthetically lacking

The real work in this rig is..

-The confurguration
- the joint design

We see that joints are not so simple to design and make because you either need great tolerances (=zacuto price) or get wobbles and slippage (knock off rigs) or you take a different route as I am doing in adding semi permanancy to some of the joints

Im interested to talk aesthetics because unfortunately I think this project could stand or fall on that rather than function

at least I didnt use green !

S
 
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morgan_moore said:
OK im trying to produce a cheap rig that is easy to modify by DIYers - hopefully im also chucking some general thoughts into the stabilisation pot that will be useful to all - be nice
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"be nice" ?

I am not being unkind in anyway whatsoever !? - I am simply telling you that you can get cheap and lightweight cycle grips from most highstreet bike stores which might be useful, you are welcome to take the info or leave it - others building their own rigs might be interested.

As for getting them onto your narrow tubing, there are no end of cheap, light and simple ways to shim them.


morgan_moore said:
Im interested to talk aesthetics because unfortunately I think this project could stand or fall on that rather than function
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Agreed, people want things to look nice, sometime even at the cost of some utility !

It really might be a simple case of getting the parts powder-coated black at your local powdercoater and throwing a couple of nice handles on !
 
morgan_moore said:
If i made 15mm to 1/2 T joints that would be an option

S
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That would be perfect along with a mount for the shoulder support then I could mount a matte box and I already have the 15mm lens support. A lot of people already have 15mm rods and camera mounts/plates so adapting your handles, follow focus, and shoulder support to fit would be a good option.

what weight range lenses have you tested? And have you found they all balance well with your rig?

Lee a weight weenie, who would of guessed? my ride isn't superlight it's a chromo HT, one day I'll go Ti but all my money is going into filmmaking toys right now.

I like my raceface good and evil grips not light but baddass
 
Sorry probably a bit sensitive over my baby !

I am indeed defo going to be exploring anodizing or other options

of course that is a multi stage step degrease etc with additional lead time (15 working days was my last quote - we will be looking to support the canon5dmk9 at that rate!)

im not suprised the UK is going bust - getting anything done here on time to price is impossible - it took three weeks just to get quotes on the joints and then one firm spat the dummy because I demanded a discount if they delivered late - its all lined up now though

links of handles with a 1/2 internal diameter most appreciated :)

S
 
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Another option is grip tape, you know like on tennis rackets. I think you can get it in leather too
 
squig said:
Lee a weight weenie, who would of guessed? my ride isn't superlight it's a chromo HT, one day I'll go Ti but all my money is going into filmmaking toys right now.
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Caution ! Thread derail ! Caution ! Thread derail ! Caution ! Thread derail !

Titanium is not particularly light - alloy or carbon is the way to go :thumbup::Drogar-Love(DBG):

Here you go - complete bike 7.3lbs (3354 grams)

00171gr.jpg


End of derail - End of derail - End of derail - End of derail - End of derail
 
It looks like you've put a lot of effort into the engineering and getting it to balance just right so now all you have to do is sort out the aesthetics, adaptability options, and marketing. As for marketing just get the finished model onto kholi and bloom's shoulders.

sourcing a black strap for the follow focus might be an idea too.
 
squig said:
That would be perfect along with a mount for the shoulder support then I could mount a matte box and I already have the 15mm lens support. A lot of people already have 15mm rods and camera mounts/plates so adapting your handles, follow focus, and shoulder support to fit would be a good option.

what weight range lenses have you tested? And have you found they all balance well with your rig?

Lee a weight weenie, who would of guessed? my ride isn't superlight it's a chromo HT, one day I'll go Ti but all my money is going into filmmaking toys right now.

I like my raceface good and evil grips not light but baddass
Click to expand...

I was obsessed with double butted eliptical spokes once

I had a bike when grips were for girls - we used tape - and very little of it

23:10 over ten miles in the right wind

---

Any way .. it is interesting to consider owners of 15mm rails urgently - I have been considering those from scratch

my first designs were 15mm - I was adamant - but that was just going to end up in lathing them from solid or something stupid ending up in this.. (http://www.elementtechnica.com/products/show/cam-support) price bracket

On long lenses.

It is my personal opinion that hand holding much over 100mm is a waste of time

The best performance with with stubby primes like the 50 1.4 or 85F2

I hope I am creating good shots with the 24-105

The rig as configured give good 'drop' to the shoulder with the 105

I would sugest that a 180 prime or suchlike would be the limit or might need a slightly longer rig or placed back so that a long frotto plate would be needed to give the lateral to use in conjunction with 'stubbies'

which of course is easy to fabricate

My vision for supporting my 80-200, and 400 2.8 involves building cages for them with thier own FF units - these would be stowed ready to roll, I can of course afford three FF units using this design

S
 
morgan_moore said:
Sorry probably a bit sensitive over my baby !
Click to expand...

:thumbup: :Drogar-Evil(DBG):


morgan_moore said:
I am indeed defo going to be exploring anodizing or other options

of course that is a multi stage step degrease etc with additional lead time (15 working days was my last quote - we will be looking to support the canon5dmk9 at that rate!)
Click to expand...

I get whole bike frames (and components) powder-coated over night, I drop them off one evening and pick them up the following evening.

Powder-coating is cheap, widely available, an incredibly tough finish and fast to get done ! They do the degreasing, sand blasting, chemical etching or whatever the material needs for you before powder-coating.

Might be a better (and certainly faster) route than anodizing.

morgan_moore said:
im not suprised the UK is going bust - getting anything done here on time to price is impossible - it took three weeks just to get quotes on the joints and then one firm spat the dummy because I demanded a discount if they delivered late - its all lined up now though
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Very true !!

On the subject of aesthetics, sometimes it only takes a few colour co-ordinated anodised bolts and levers to impart a sense of quality !

I use this place, good range, very cheap:

http://www.tastynuts.com/Products/Aluminium
 
Tasty nuts I like it that exactly the look I have been thinking of

It would be £26 of bolts, £6 of nuts in Aluminium

or more than £120 worth in titanium

(to me)

S
 
I really need to bite the bullet - splash for a couple of real 'blingers' gunmetal with gold bolts and plonk em to Bloom and Chung - Blooms a Z payroll boy i imagine though

S
 
morgan_moore said:
Any way .. it is interesting to consider owners of 15mm rails urgently - I have been considering those from scratch

S
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The thing is that manfrotto plate is kinda heavy but understandably necessary for the design due to the need for a sliding mechanism for different lenses. I don't have any scales but I reckon my cavision rods/mount is probably about equal to the frotto 12.7mm setup. But as you mentioned there's going to be a weight penalty with the larger joints but I think it might be worth a small weight penalty to be able to easily mount 15mm accessories. But the question is would added weight throw off the balance of the rig which is why I asked about the weight range of lenses you've tested. I'm just trying to get an idea of how much weight this rig can take before it starts to become unbalanced.
 
morgan_moore said:
I really need to bite the bullet - splash for a couple of real 'blingers' gunmetal with gold bolts and plonk em to Bloom and Chung - Blooms a Z payroll boy i imagine though

S
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He's reviewed cheaper z alternatives like loupes. Who has the $$$ for z anyway?

I imagine the Ai bolts will save quite a bit of weight.

I reckon the raw Ai look works, redrock and zacuto have raw stainless, it's the garden hose grips and technicolor focus strap that kills it.
 
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I was imagining a 15mm-1/2 T joint for compatability with rails- farily simple and a 1/2-15mm bush (like the 15-19mm bushes) to accomodate 15mm mic booms or suchlike again farily simple or sourcable

For applying to a (handheld) stabiliser keeping it low and close to the gimbal is critical because a doubling of distance from the gimbal will double your countermass requirement - I have been playing with a super slim version - a plate with rail poking out of the front/back - a flyer special - much more engineering

Back to lens lenghth

The rig is nails there would be no physical strenth issues with a heavier lens for the rig

However shooting loupless and monitorless you are balancing
-having the camera as close as possible while still being able to focus on the screen
- keeping the CofM of the loaded rig behind the handles
-restricting the length of the rig because holding your hands out too far or up is fatiguing

My estimate is a 180 prime would go on the current rig, the rig could be extended by 5cm without inducing too much extra fatigue

Once you had the joints, plate and rear hinge you could cut your self a few sets of rails from that cheap as chips 1/2 bar and taylor it to your own dimensions

In terms of interfacing with your existing I think mabybe the back joint would be a problem - the back joint which allows you to find the horizontal CofM that will preesnt you with a inertially balanced shoulder mount panning solution is critical to the design

(" inertially balanced shoulder mount panning solution "is the phrase Im looking for in the BTS vidoe where I get the stutters:))


S
 
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how much counterbalance weight do you add to your blackbird with your heaviest lens and this rig? and how much does the lens weigh?
 
4 small full one half each side with the black bird with this load..
-------

Rode Vid Mic (250g up high?)

24-105 - plus hood (1kg)

5d 1.7kg?

That is a reasonable load - not for the all day wedding shooter

The RotInertia is Similar to a Pilot IMO

Trimming this weight (aluminim bolts etc) is the mission, of course lowering the Cof mass of the camera which can be done if you lose the plate - no plate = PITA

IMO flying 15mm rails is a no-no pretty much

incedentally the RVM should be mounted to oppose the skate wheel to create better DB and lower its distance from the gimbal

swapping to a 20mm or 24mm prime changes the game no end

-----

on the merlin which is shorter you are looking at maxing out at 6 masses - i think the 24-105 would be little harsh on the merlin best with a 24prime or my fav the 28PC


of course you can drop the rigs rear spar below the gimbal but then you lose the inherent DB
S
 
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To clarify- if your rig balances on the rear shoulder mount so that the lens points vertically in the sky and the stabiliers mass is directly below the gimbal or equalised around the gimbal (BB style) Dynamic Balance should be inherent upon acheivement of static balance as far as I can work out

S
 
Since you are concerned about weight for flying, what wall thickness did you use for your 1/2" tubing?
 
slickh said:
Since you are concerned about weight for flying, what wall thickness did you use for your 1/2" tubing?
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Im not sure the exact, about 2mm wall

it is supprisingly strong and light

I have not broken any yet including experiments in bending the stuff for more curved designs

There is a possiblity of trying thinner

S
 
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