Reviving Old Stage Fresnels

Jordan Scott Price

Jordan Scott Price

Veteran
I've recently acquired four stage lights from a university's surplus. They are flood-spot Fresnel lights. They used to be part of a lighting grid, so they were clamped to overhead pipes with C-clamps, which are still attached. Because of their intended use, they don't have an on/off switch.

They take a P28S base bulb (http://www.bulbtown.com/P28s_Base_Bulbs_s/643.htm), and all of them are missing bulbs. I don't have any experience working with P28S bulbs; I'm used to DYS, FEL, FEV, FDF, and FKW bulbs with completely different kinds of bases.

The lights also don't have any barn doors, but I do have plenty of 4-leaf barn doors from other lights that would fit the beam, if I could just rig a set to each light. My barn doors were for Briteks with a round opening, but these lights have a traditional square face that accepts standard filter and pattern holders.


So, my question to you is would it be worth it to salvage these old dogs and make usable lights for film work out of them? Or would the cost in time and money to make them functional be more than just buying a new set of Fresnels intended for film?


At this moment, it looks like I need:


  • New bulbs for each, which run about $20 a piece
  • Some kind of barn doors that will fit
  • A kind of spud clamp for mounting the lights on stands instead of the C-clamps that are currently fixed to them
  • Potentially a switch, although I don't have a problem just plugging/unplugging them
  • A set of scrims

I have next to no lights in my current setup, and I'm in the market for a set of Fresnels. I happened along these, but I'm trying to weigh the costs to see if spending the money on bulbs, scrims, and whatever it takes to make them functional on light stands would be worth it. I'd like to spread out the wattage so one or two are maybe 750W and the others 300W and 500W.

But any suggestions about where to get the parts, how to modify the lights, or what wattage I should consider would be most appreciated.

I will post pictures later today. They are practically identical to this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/195831-REG/Altman_65Q_65Q_Fresnel_Light.html
 
Last edited:
The altman stage fresnels are actually manufactured by L&E - I have four, three of which are nearly 20 years old - they go for about $150 new.

They're great workhorse lights. For a spud, get the avenger TVMP (the matthews has a thumbscrew, the avenger has a T-handle so no tools needed to get them on a stand). Don't use a lightweight 3/8 to 5/8 spud (like the little manfrotto) you need a heavy duty piece.

Double check the wiring, make sure the insulation is solid and the fiberglass heat proof covering is sound. Clean out the inside, pull the sliding lamp housing out and rub a TINY bit of high-temp grease under it - they can get a little sticky on the focus-flood sliding.

Those bulbs can be hard to swap - I spray a bit of WD-40 into the socket - LET IT DRY of course!

For a switch, I had mine wired with utility junction boxes and a household switch - too bulky for packing though. I found some 10-amp in-line switches on Amazon - they're a ***** to wire since the cases are so small. Richard at cool lights sells a great in-line switch; if the shipping for a few of those comes up as thirty bucks, drop them an email to make sure it's correct.

There are barn doors and snoots still available for these - the barn doors are pretty heavy-duty. Google up theatrical lighting suppliers, there's a few that carry this line.

These can be lamped with 300, 500, or 750. You could likely stick a 1k in, but they're rated for 750 max. Very nice lens on these, great light for the money. I gutted one of mine and made an HID out of it (using the alzo bulb and ballast), really killer.
 
The fixtures are a find and definitely worthwhile. You can find used scrims and barndoors on eBay. Be patient, they come around all the time. If you can't find scrims use ND gel, cheap and just as effective. Get .15 (half stop). For switches I plug a stinger into the lamp and the male end into a Harbor Freight router speed control. It provides the on off switch and for those applications where you don't care about color shift it's a nice dimmer as well.

I didn't look but if you can get a 750W 3200K globe that's the way to go. Be sure you don't get a globe with lesser color temp that's made for the stage.

TVMP= TV to motion picture, also called yoke-to-stand adapters.

Have fun, you got lucky.
 
Awesome.

Thank you so much for the info. I figured I was going to have to scrap these for parts, but it looks like I should be able to get these up and running soon.
 
Big theatre Fresnels are really good for video - proper key light with nice soft edges to shadows, but still defined. It's worth checking the lamp class - P28 is just the lampholder, and when these were new they would have been tungsten lamps, later on halogen versions with a P28 base came along and are brighter and last longer. Theatrical lamps come in so many sizes that it's important to get the right ones. Most will fit, but the base to fillament height is different on the individual types. So many lamps fit and light up, but if the fillament isn't in the centre of the reflector, beam quality suffers, and sometimes they can even overheat and fail. Most theatre class lamps are also 3000K colour temp - a few are 3200K. Decent old stage lighting was built really well, hence how 30 or 40 year old ones are still able to be used.

Depending on their age, it's also checking the internal wiring is ok - over here in the UK, the Strand company made similar products and wired them with asbestos covered cable for heat resistance - so when refurbing these, any white powder inside could be quite unpleasant!
 
I have two stage fresnels that I tricked up for film/video use, exactly as describe above. A TVMP adaptor to a Bogen stand. I got four way barn doors from a place called Times Square Stage Lighting (who were the original re-sellers of the lights I have). I use 750 watt 3200K bulbs in them. I love the light they put out an think that they will be a valuable addition to your kit.

Here is the link to the TVMP adaptor at Film Tools.

http://www.filmtools.com/tvmp-bale-block.html
 
paulears said:
Big theatre Fresnels are really good for video - proper key light with nice soft edges to shadows, but still defined. It's worth checking the lamp class - P28 is just the lampholder, and when these were new they would have been tungsten lamps, later on halogen versions with a P28 base came along and are brighter and last longer. Theatrical lamps come in so many sizes that it's important to get the right ones. Most will fit, but the base to fillament height is different on the individual types. So many lamps fit and light up, but if the fillament isn't in the centre of the reflector, beam quality suffers, and sometimes they can even overheat and fail. Most theatre class lamps are also 3000K colour temp - a few are 3200K. Decent old stage lighting was built really well, hence how 30 or 40 year old ones are still able to be used.

Depending on their age, it's also checking the internal wiring is ok - over here in the UK, the Strand company made similar products and wired them with asbestos covered cable for heat resistance - so when refurbing these, any white powder inside could be quite unpleasant!
Click to expand...

I got these lights through a tenured film professor. He said that it was rumored at one point that the lights I picked up had asbestos, but that he personally verified that they didn't.

Thanks for the info, too!
 
David G. Smith said:
I have two stage fresnels that I tricked up for film/video use, exactly as describe above. A TVMP adaptor to a Bogen stand. I got four way barn doors from a place called Times Square Stage Lighting (who were the original re-sellers of the lights I have). I use 750 watt 3200K bulbs in them. I love the light they put out an think that they will be a valuable addition to your kit.

Here is the link to the TVMP adaptor at Film Tools.

http://www.filmtools.com/tvmp-bale-block.html
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. Which bulbs do you use? Can you provide a link?
 
jscottprice said:
Thanks for the link. Which bulbs do you use? Can you provide a link?
Click to expand...

I don't have the lights or bulbs here with me right now, but I have had the spares for quit a few years. I think I bought them directly from Sylvania. I don't remember. If I get to to them in the next couple of days, I will post what I can find out.
 
Once again take the bulbs to Barbizon they will be able to match them easily. Barbizon handles both theatrical and studio lights.
 
jscottprice said:
Thanks for the link. Which bulbs do you use? Can you provide a link?
Click to expand...

Here are the recommended bulbs from the manufacturer's spec sheet for the 6" L&E / Altman fresnel:

******** CXK ** 300watt.............. (25hr) .................. $18.00
******** BTL *** 500watt............ (500hr) ................. $22.00
******** BTM ** 500watt............ (100hr) ................. $24.00
******** BTN ** 750watt............. (500hr) ................. $24.00
******** BTP ** 750watt............. (200hr) ................. $28.00

I get lamps on eBay or just google the three letter code. Most of the big on-line bulb retailers carry them. Note the hour ratings when you buy though.

The prices shown are approximate pricing for the last couple years.
 
Geez. 25 hours for an $18 bulb?

I knew lower wattage bulbs tended to go out faster, but damn. Guess I will need to stock up.


Thanks for the info, Michael.
 
jscottprice said:
Geez. 25 hours for an $18 bulb?

I knew lower wattage bulbs tended to go out faster, but damn. Guess I will need to stock up.


Thanks for the info, Michael.
Click to expand...

Those ratings are usually VERY conservative. BUT, I would not go into any shot with out a least a couple of spares for every bulb I was planning on using. If you are using high power tungsten bulbs make sure you get in the habit of turning them off when they are not needed. Don't get real anal about it and turn them off after every take, as I think that constant re-striking may actually lead to a lower bulb life, but don't use your set lighting as work lights. Once the lights are set and adjusted, cut them off until needed.
 
I've added color temp here. It's interesting that a small increase in filament temperature gives you a lot shorter life.

Anyway, ya gotta be careful to get what you want.

******** CXK ** 300watt.............. (25hr) .................. $18.00---3200K
******** BTL *** 500watt............ (500hr) ................. $22.00---3050K
******** BTM ** 500watt............ (100hr) ................. $24.00---3200K
******** BTN ** 750watt............. (500hr) ................. $24.00---3050K
******** BTP ** 750watt............. (200hr) ................. $28.00---3200K
 
I use stage fresnels for lights all the time. They are cheap and easy to get.

Here's what I have as far as code/base/wattage/temp for p40 and p28 bases:

BVT/p40s/1000w/3050K
BVV/p40s/1000w/3200k
BVW/p40s/2000W/3200k

BTR/p28/1000w/3200k
BTP/p28/750w/3200k
BTM/p28/500w/3200k

BTN/p28/750w/3050k
BTL/p28/500w/3050k
 
jscottprice said:
Geez. 25 hours for an $18 bulb?

Thanks for the info, Michael.
Click to expand...

I don't see any point in using the 300 bulb in a big fresnel - full or 3/4 CTB, ND or a scrim would get you right where you want using a 500. That socket is hard to work in my experience, you really have to torque down on the bulb base - I try to avoid bulb swaps. (I've come to like using 3/4 CTB after reading a lot of Roger Deakins' site - you get a bit of warmth for a daylight setup, very nice and less loss).

I did take an old dewalt plastic drill case, the brief-case size, and cut all the dividers out with one of those oscillating saws with the L-shaped blade; tuck a sheet of foam in and cut slots for plenty of tungsten bulbs.

I don't religiously turn them off and on on-set; notice how most bulbs blow when you power them up (like your household bulbs) or they're dead when powered up? I've never had one just die when running. DO TURN THEM OFF when moving the lights though, even when adjusting height on a stand unless you're really smooth & gentle about it; I've seen more fresnel-type bulbs die when getting bumped while lit than anything else.
 
jscottprice said:
...rumored at one point that the lights I picked up had asbestos, but that he personally verified that they didn't.
Click to expand...

As Ronny Raygun said, "Trust, but verify".

Consider getting a second opinion. Lots of old lights have asbestos, & I'd prefer to see them serviced by a pro. Wouldn't cost a lot.

Best,
Bern
 
Michael Carter said:
I don't see any point in using the 300 bulb in a big fresnel - full or 3/4 CTB, ND or a scrim would get you right where you want using a 500. That socket is hard to work in my experience, you really have to torque down on the bulb base - I try to avoid bulb swaps. (I've come to like using 3/4 CTB after reading a lot of Roger Deakins' site - you get a bit of warmth for a daylight setup, very nice and less loss).

I did take an old dewalt plastic drill case, the brief-case size, and cut all the dividers out with one of those oscillating saws with the L-shaped blade; tuck a sheet of foam in and cut slots for plenty of tungsten bulbs.

I don't religiously turn them off and on on-set; notice how most bulbs blow when you power them up (like your household bulbs) or they're dead when powered up? I've never had one just die when running. DO TURN THEM OFF when moving the lights though, even when adjusting height on a stand unless you're really smooth & gentle about it; I've seen more fresnel-type bulbs die when getting bumped while lit than anything else.
Click to expand...

I used to design with halogen bulbs. They never blow while running, that's true! They could last forever if you never turn them off. They usually pop when being turned on caused by metal fatigue due to a combination of surge currents and rapid expansion of the filament because of the heat.

The filaments do become extra soft and breakable when hot, so while moving the light while lit, be careful not to smack it or set it down hard.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top