Retina Mac Book Pros

[Thomas Smet]

The new MBP doesn't really mean a 2880x1800 resolution. It is basically still the same scale as a 1440x900 15" monitor. Just a little crisper and more detailed. Take a look at the iPads for example. Applications and screen space is exactly the same between the iPad 1 and 3. Retina is more like a fancy new form of anti-aliasing. Instead of blurring the edges of pixels you throw in some in between pixels. Perfect form of anti-alising but it is no where near how we think about a 2880x1800 screen.

If you work in applications that have a lot of stuff on the screen like tool bars and settings windows then this new laptop is going to be like working on a 15" 1440x900 display. To me that is a huge downgrade from the 17". This thing is supposed to target pros but yet pros tend to use software with a lot taking place on the screen all at once. Writing HTML code is still going to be like working on a 1440x900 display. Working on a word document is still going to have a cramped screen space. I can only imagine how much of a nightmare Apple Motion and After Effects would be on this machine. In FCP X Apple claims HD video fits in a window at the full 1920x1080 pixels. So what. That is really no different then a 1440x900 monitor showing your HD video at 1/2 resolution. The video window and application windows and tools still take up the same amount of space which means a kind of a cramped work environment.

Remember retina doesn't act like a native 2048x1536 display on the iPads. All applications still function as a 1024x768 display. They just use higher resolution buttons and graphics to fill in that space. All rendering to the display happens at a 2x factor. Retina supposed applications get to use high quality assets while non retina supported applications are basically pixel doubled to look exactly like they would on a 1440x900 screen. You can't just use the 2880x1800 at it's native size because then text and buttons would be so tiny we would all go blind in a few years. It has always been about making current displays looking more natural and crisp and giving more work space.

 

[refocusedmedia]

Meh what? Who in the world would want more than 1920x1200, it'd be unuseable at 15.4".

Most mobile editors? Why do you think everyone was so excited at the announcement of the screen resolution initially? How would it be unusable? Do you mean that it would be unusable for you and your eyes?

Saw this, I think it's sort of funny. I mean, a title that says "least repairable laptop ever" has a pretty negative sound to, and it assumes that it was a design FLAW rather than a design CONSEQUENCE. It seems to me quite obvious that to gain extreme thinness and lightweight, you give up/trade off other things. Seeing as how the Flash memory storage isn't something that isn't likely to need repair, and given that logic boards and displays are extremely expensive laptop repairs to begin with, the only real downside I see her is RAM upgradeability (but with 16gb RAM, I don't see this being a big issue before the time that I would simply need/want to upgrade my entire laptop anyway) and battery replacement (but given Apple's superior 5-year battery technology, again, I don't see this being a big issue before I want to upgrade).

RAM and HDD upgradability are a big deal. Most owners of older MBP (or any laptop, really) will tell you they still use it because they've been able to upgrade the RAM, install a new SSD, etc. Plus, it's a simple aspect of computer ownership that should be inherent and expected.

There's really not a lot to go wrong or need repair here on other than large, expensive items anyway. That said, Applecare 3 year warranty seems to be definitely a worthwhile purchase on this machine (than again, a warranty on most laptops is worth it anyway).

Read: if you are so financially comfortable that you can throw your money at this new MBP, then the absurdities of both the cost and limited self-repair or upgrade capabilities probably don't matter much to you either. Obviously AppleCare should be purchased with this... I think that's probably the whole point.

I like a bit more modularity in an expensive machine. But I think 16GB RAM + i7 should be enough for the next two years, so not really a big issue. But that means you have to pay a premium now (about $3500) to 'future' proof it, since there is no upgrading later (16GB RAM and 756GB SSD). Spending that kind of money, and thinking of long term, I'd definitely puchase Apple care, but then it would only be a little more to go ahead and max out the CPU too, so then we'd be at $4100. So, actually, one might as well buy the entry level retina MBP and buy a whole new one in a year or two, and end up spending the same money or less, since you could sell the first laptop to offset the newer purchase.

Great comment, but it's still $4000+ for a laptop you cannot repair or upgrade yourself. Not to mention the age-old truth that you could purchase a similarly-performing PC laptop for about half the price. Sure it may be a bit thicker, weigh a bit more, not have Thunderbolt, and report less battery life... but none of those factors are worth assuaging for $2000, especially if you have anything resembling a "budget". If you don't, and money is no object, by all means enjoy the hell out of your new MBP.

 

[filmguy123]

Most mobile editors? Why do you think everyone was so excited at the announcement of the screen resolution initially? How would it be unusable? Do you mean that it would be unusable for you and your eyes?

You know, I really don't think this is accurate. I've heard the opposite from a lot of mobile editors who didn't understand the idea of a HiDPI screens, saying "2880x1800 is ridiculous, it's unusable!" And honestly, it would be. That is absurdly small, even for someone with very good eyesight like myself. I tried one out at the store, and 1920x1200 looks great and is about as small as anyone would really want to go. That said, there is no doubt that Onyx or similar Mac utilities will easily add functionality to bypass the control panel to offer this natively, so if you really want to use it you should be able to. I just don't think 90% of mobile editors will find that remotely practical. I know I wouldn't, and I've been an editor for 10+ years.

The reason people are so excited about the screen resolution is because they understand the point - it's HiDPI. It's ridiculously crisp and sharp, while retaining proper sized icons and text thanks to OSX.

RAM and HDD upgradability are a big deal. Most owners of older MBP (or any laptop, really) will tell you they still use it because they've been able to upgrade the RAM, install a new SSD, etc. Plus, it's a simple aspect of computer ownership that should be inherent and expected.

You know I do totally agree that this has traditionally been the case, but the game has been changing and continues to. Since HDD is out and SSD is in for this type of mobile computer, which in my eyes is huge plus, I just can't see myself upgrading the internal storage to 1TB or more of SSD space anytime remotely soon. It is much more practical for an editor, in so many ways, to utilize no-bottleneck thunderbolt storage. Thanks to USB 3.0 and thunderbolt, and the already large SSD space available on this Macbook, I see no need anytime soon to change internal storage.

I could possibly see wishing that I had 32gb of RAM at some point, but for a mobile workstation? I see 16GB of RAM being more than sufficient for a quad-core processor for a very long time, with the exception of a select few users. And those who need more than 16gb RAM likely need more than a mobile workstation.

Read: if you are so financially comfortable that you can throw your money at this new MBP, then the absurdities of both the cost and limited self-repair or upgrade capabilities probably don't matter much to you either. Obviously AppleCare should be purchased with this... I think that's probably the whole point.

You seem to imply that to hold this view, money is no object. That's not at all the case for me. The limited self-repair and upgrade capabilities, as I have pointed out, are really not a big deal in my perspective (again, that hasn't traditionally been the case, but in this day and age and with this specific technology). It's not at all that I'm so rich it doesn't matter. If it was a non repairable HDD I'd be worried, but a large and non repairable/upgradeable SSD? Nah. 16gb of RAM? By the time that is causing problems it will be time to upgrade more than the RAM. A warranty should be purchased with ANY laptop, as any mobile device can be expensive to repair.

 

[Postmaster]

...and report less battery life....

You guys are aware, that Apple rates battery life, as surfing the web with WIFI turned off (on a cable).
So you have one, maybe one and a half hours of editing on the battery, with no external drive or anything else hooked up.
That means editing on your internal drive.

...just saying.

Frank

 

[Guest]

You guys are aware, that Apple rates battery life, as surfing the web with WIFI turned off (on a cable).
So you have one, maybe one and a half hours of editing on the battery, with no external drive or anything else hooked up.
That means editing on your internal drive.

...just saying.

Frank

...surfing the web without going near anything flash or youtube, i might add.

 

[Guest]

The new MBP doesn't really mean a 2880x1800 resolution. It is basically still the same scale as a 1440x900 15" monitor. Just a little crisper and more detailed. Take a look at the iPads for example. Applications and screen space is exactly the same between the iPad 1 and 3. Retina is more like a fancy new form of anti-aliasing.

The video window and application windows and tools still take up the same amount of space which means a kind of a cramped work environment.
They just use higher resolution buttons and graphics to fill in that space. All rendering to the display happens at a 2x factor. Retina supposed applications get to use high quality assets while non retina supported applications are basically pixel doubled to look exactly like they would on a 1440x900 screen. You can't just use the 2880x1800 at it's native size because then text and buttons would be so tiny we would all go blind in a few years. It has always been about making current displays looking more natural and crisp and giving more work space.

Sometimes it is all about user experience. On any mobile device, I will appreciate a resolution bump (of course anything over the current iPhone dpi is over kill from here on out). Sometimes I like just leaning forward to about 12inches from the screen to look at something. I do that when I look at something in nature all the time.

 

[Guest]

Great comment, but it's still $4000+ for a laptop you cannot repair or upgrade yourself. Not to mention the age-old truth that you could purchase a similarly-performing PC laptop for about half the price. Sure it may be a bit thicker, weigh a bit more, not have Thunderbolt, and report less battery life... but none of those factors are worth assuaging for $2000, especially if you have anything resembling a "budget". If you don't, and money is no object, by all means enjoy the hell out of your new MBP.

Exactly, the new MBP's don't stack up in the investment mindset, for now. Seems more like for the cool kids, and guys like Chase Jarvis, or someone who works at a trendy fast growing church.

 

[Guest]

In CS6, on whatever window your mouse pointer is over, hit the "tilde" key - ~

Hit once to go to full screen, hit again to shrink it back down. Great for working on a laptop. Blow up your
"media selection" window, or "Project", "Source", "Playback", "Timeline" etc. Perfect.

You can also hit Shift + on a PC on the window that is selected - not the one cursor/mouse pointer is on. I just use ~ all of the time.

Michael

I just have to repost this, in case anyone missed it. Life saver.


If you're like me, and not a full time editor, and prefer the 15" notebook size for editing on the go, having the zoom function is soooo nice.

 

[unadog]

Dear Michael's wife, your husband is pretty awesome.

Sincerely,
James

Thank you James! My wife has decided she won't divorce me this week, since I do have **some** use after all, no matter how minimal ...

She just doesn't "get" me staring at a screen 24/7. But I'm not obsessed like she says I am: I'm editing, or learning editing, or reading books about editing, or posting on forums about editing - plus then there's cameras, and screenwriting, and watching movies. All kinds of different things going on online.

I guess I had better learn some new tricks now to see if I can survive next week.

Cheers! Michael

 

[dustylense]

...surfing the web without going near anything flash or youtube, i might add.

And just how well is Flash doing? The Iphone and Ipad, which sparked and set the tone for how mobile devices are gauged, killed flash on mobile devices. SO, who will will use flash to develop when more and more and more content will be constructed with the mindset of being viewable on mobile devices? Look at what the Ipod did to CD's and music stores.
As Frank says, and I quote "Just saying".....

Look, if you need something beefy for what ever needs you demand it for, the good thing is that there are options. Go to them and who ever you want. But there is the FACT and REALITY that Apple has set a tone through various products that have moved us into future ways of doing things on a creative and connected level. Again, might I point some of you at the statistic of what Apple is worth???? Do I have to?

I'll leave it with this. "Go cheap, buy twice". I'm sure all of us have experienced that. Thats not saying that the MBP is any better than a Dell. But it's true with matteboxes, follow focus, tripods. My Mom has a hand me down 2006 MBP 17 I gave her. While it's certainly under specked to todays offerings, it still works at the speed it offered then to this day and I have never once done anything in terms of diagnostics or problem solving to it. That goes with every Mac I have owned. Every now and then, the most you do is hit the "software updates are available", click OK, eat a burrito, and continue along my merry way.
I'm sure that hand me down 6 year old Dell is a real snappy machine for your 70 year old mom, just trying to browse the internet. You get that call at 10Pm from Moms, "WHy can't I get on AMazon??!!!" A year ago my Mom was a complete monkey about computers. Today I ask her for Ipad tips.
Just saying, Frank.

 

[Postmaster]

And just how well is Flash doing? The Iphone and Ipad, which sparked and set the tone for how mobile devices are gauged, killed flash on mobile devices. .

Just for the minority of iOS users - the rest of the world is just doing fine with Flash.




...just saying :beer:

 

[simonpwood]

Just for the minority of iOS users - the rest of the world is just doing fine with Flash.


View attachment 55075

...just saying :beer:

Ok. I think we get it. You don't like Apple.

So ignoring Android and Flash for a while; how about that new Retina Mac Book Pro....

 

[refocusedmedia]

And just how well is Flash doing? The Iphone and Ipad, which sparked and set the tone for how mobile devices are gauged, killed flash on mobile devices.

Where and when did this happen? You realize that Android is the leading data-enabled mobile device platform in the world, right? And it is fully flash-compatible.

But there is the FACT and REALITY that Apple has set a tone through various products that have moved us into future ways of doing things on a creative and connected level.

They've certainly made existing technologies and capabilities much more approachable and requiring of less thought for the average user. No doubt about it. I know that alone is why many choose to stick with them regardless of the dent to their bank account, and I can't really fault them for that.

I'll leave it with this. "Go cheap, buy twice". I'm sure all of us have experienced that. Thats not saying that the MBP is any better than a Dell. But it's true with matteboxes, follow focus, tripods. My Mom has a hand me down 2006 MBP 17 I gave her. While it's certainly under specked to todays offerings, it still works at the speed it offered then to this day and I have never once done anything in terms of diagnostics or problem solving to it. That goes with every Mac I have owned. Every now and then, the most you do is hit the "software updates are available", click OK, eat a burrito, and continue along my merry way.
I'm sure that hand me down 6 year old Dell is a real snappy machine for your 70 year old mom, just trying to browse the internet. You get that call at 10Pm from Moms, "WHy can't I get on AMazon??!!!" A year ago my Mom was a complete monkey about computers. Today I ask her for Ipad tips.
Just saying, Frank.

Great anecdote, and valid points overall. But then again, this is supposed to be a purchase for a power-user / working professional... not someone's mother. I just don't understand why someone in that position would pay nearly-if-not double the price for a more limited platform unless, again, the budgetary aspect is of no concern.

 

[dustylense]

Just for the minority of iOS users - the rest of the world is just doing fine with Flash.


View attachment 55075

...just saying :beer:

I guess you don't get it. Would you code a website using flash knowing that 25% of the market is on OIS devices? You're going to market your business and just say, 25% of the market won't see my content? http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/09/adobe-confirms-flash-player-is-dead-for-mobile-devices/

Secondly. THe iphone is now on how many carriers? That's right, nearly all of them. I suggest you read this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/9038087/Apple-iPhone-market-share-outpacing-Android.html or this http://www.readwriteweb.com/mobile/2012/01/apples-iphone-strategy-cutting.php
How many Android devices on the market are competing agains "A single product" like the Iphone? Think of it this way. (first look at this list of products that host android: http://www.androidtapp.com/list-of-android-devices/) I didn't count them all, but we'll keep it simple (just for you). Lets say 20 (it's more like 100 or more). Ready? 20 devices in the market against 2 (Iphone and Ipad). And IOS holds a 30% marketshare? Catching my drift here?.....It takes 20 items to beat 2! We've all seen the rush and lines when the new Iphone and Ipad hits the store. My suggestion, stay clear of it for about 2 weeks.

Thirdly. Who sells more Apps? WHo has more apps?
Finally, Who copies who? Things tend to start looking Apple after a bit, don't they?

ANd finally. If you had taken the price of the first Ipod when they launched, and instead of buying the Ipod, you bought Apple stock at that time and value, today you would be a very very wealthy man off a $400 investment.

 

[refocusedmedia]

I didn't count them all, but we'll keep it simple (just for you). Lets say 20. Ready? 20 devices in the market against 2 (Iphone and Ipad). And IOS holds a 30% marketshare? Catching my drift here?.....It takes 20 items to beat 2!

iPhone, iPhone3G, iPhone3GS, iPhone4, iPhone4S, iPad, iPad2, iPad3. Not to mention the many iOS versions. Sure it's all still the "iPhone" and "iPad", but it's not nearly as black and white as only 2 whole devices. And Android's fragmentation is an issue, but that is primarily the fault of being an open platform available to multiple manufacturers. Regardless, Google has addressed it with version 4.0 (ICS).

Thirdly. Who sells more Apps? WHo has more apps?

Who also has millions of non data-enabled mobile devices that account for multi-millions of app purchases?

Finally, Who copies who? Things tend to start looking Apple after a bit, don't they?

Apple is renowned for "copying", so I don't quite understand this point. Hell, many of Apple's iOS updates are direct implementations of things that Android had prior. The long-running joke is that everything Apple does is "revolutionary" simply because they put their name, polish, and marketing on someone else's innovation.

ANd finally. If you had taken the price of the first Ipod when they launched, and instead of buying the Ipod, you bought Apple stock at that time and value, today you would be a very very wealthy man off a $400 investment.

This is true, their net worth is incredible (insert joke about how it's because all of their products cost twice as much here). If only we had all been so fortuitous.

 

[Guest]

Well, not so sure the omission of the 17" is good for select pros, even with a retina screen. So, I suppose the introduction of the retina MBP, is fitting with the simplification of Apple product line and catering towards the majority of users. I do not think a retina display really replaces a 17" screen. I don't see how looking closer at a 15" helps some people, but I only use a 15" since it is the best compromise between size and portability. So, I fit in with the masses on this one. A loss for some more niche users.

 

[David Saraceno]

Let's move away from iOS/Android market share and direct comments towards the Retina display MacBook Pro.

Thanks.

 

[nwstudios]

Anyone contemplating a Retina MBP may want to read this.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review/8

"To be quite honest, the hardware in the rMBP isn’t enough to deliver a consistently smooth experience across all applications"


"While last year’s MBP delivered anywhere from 46 - 60 fps during this test, the rMBP hovered around 20 fps (18 - 24 fps was the typical range)."

 

[J Davis]

Played with one the other day. For the dev's out there it has viewport same as iPad3 pixel mapping of viewport pixels to retina pixels.

For non-devs this is very important. The viewport means that a 960px wide website still appears at the same size as before, because if it appeared in retina pixels it would be one quarter of its size (50% of its width and 50% of its height.)

What this means is that vector will render beautifully (example fonts in a web page).

Raster images that are scaled anyway will render beautifully (example a 150dpi jpg).

What about video players?
Same as a jpeg, if the resolution is there and the player is scaling then you'll see the difference. Quicktime in particular.

What about video applications?

... and this is where it most likely will boil down to the application. For example premiere may be sending the correct number of pixels to display in the canvas at viewport size. To explain it better: if your premier interface has the canvas taking up 854x480 pixels on a regular laptop then it is also taking up 854x480 viewport pixels on the retina display. If premiere only sends 854x480 worth of video information to its UI ( and consequently the viewport) then you will not see a difference between this retina laptop and a regular one. My guess is this is the case, although I have not had time to test and compare. It's also my educated guess that FCP7 would do the same because its legacy.

FCPx however - I bet that it is optimized to send higher double width / double height worth of video image data to that part of the application UI and let the viewport translate to retina pixels. If it doesn't its only logical that the next update would enable it because its a selling feature that sets it apart from the others.


- my .02c

 

[Guest]

fwiw, i found your comments insightful. Thanks.