Requested refund on GH3 preorder to buy another HMC40

Felipe Henao

Felipe Henao

Well-known member
Thanks God as an old BH customer, they accepted a refund on the pre order from the GH3 after watching this undecent video quality and the HMC40 is in $ 1650 including XLR adapter
AC90 is probably the same way, a lot of fake advertising for a bad camera, Panasonic is loosing money per second going down the hill

 
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Felipe Henao said:
AC90 is probably the same way, a lot of fake advertising for a bad camera, Panasonic is loosing money per second going down the hill
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Where on earth do you get justification to make statements like that?

First, the guy in the video you linked flat out says that there's a different video that's much better than his, so clearly his camera wasn't set up properly.

Secondly, the AC90 is a superb video camera, and better than the HMC40 in video quality in just about every possible way. Said as a former owner of an HMC40 and as the guy who probably has more experience with the AC90 than just about anybody on the planet.

I don't mind when someone speaks a differing opinion when it's based on experience, but to make a broadside bashing of two cameras you haven't even used yet does seem completely unwarranted.
 
Hi Felipe

It's really unfair to say things about cameras that haven't even yet come onto the market too...By all means say "I'm un-impressed with the XXX specs" But don't critise a camera (a pair actually) that you have never even had your hands on... Be fair...if you really want to make a valid comment about either camera, make sure you buy one and also use it for at least 100 hours before making any comments...The GH3 has a lot of better features than the GH2 and doesn't need to be hacked. Based on footage from Bob and expert comments from Barry you just cannot compare the HMC40 to the AC90 ...it's miles ahead in features and also in performance... As a GH3 or/or AC-90 owner I'm sure you are allowed to have your opinions but certainly not by simply watching a clip doesn't warrant those kind of comments. Comments on a forum are for us to learn, explain or comment back on .....posting a comment saying a camera is "bad" doesn't help anyone.

I think you will find the AC-90 is a lot more camera than the HMC40 ...As an HMC80 owner (same electronics BTW) I know what the HMC's can do and the 90's are way, way ahead....If only they would put the 90 in a shoulder-mount I would be top of the order list!

I hope you do give Barry an apology

Chris
 
Even for cameras susceptible to severe aliasing, color moire can show up unexpectedly depending on the relation between patterns in the sensor and patterns in the image. Let's say that a camera is suseptible to color moire (eg., due to line skipping or a weak low pass filter). Then fact that some footage https://vimeo.com/52019304 doesn't have color moire doesn't mean that camera was set up properly; it only means the camera operator was lucky or reshot the scene repeatedly at different distances and angles until they got rid of it. The fact that other footage https://vimeo.com/51855740 has moire doesn't mean that camera wasn't set up properly; it only means that the camera operator wasn't lucky. Yes it's possible to reshoot footage with moire at a different distance or angle so as to reduce the moire. But if we find a clip with moire, then the camera responsible for that clip has an aliasing problem.

Remember how concerned you were when you saw the aliasing in the BMCC color resolution chart? How is this GH3 footage any different?

http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?906-Resolution-charts&p=20553&viewfull=1#post20553

Barry_Green said:
First, the guy in the video you linked flat out says that there's a different video that's much better than his, so clearly his camera wasn't set up properly.
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Ok people, A FRIEND OF MINE WILL SOON HAVE THE AC90 in his hands, and will be posting image quality we all spec Panasonic broadcast division will be considered with us .
Chris about the GH3 I got my money back, as far as I understand moire aliasing is not fixable via firmware is a hardware consideration. .
 
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Hi Felipe

That's probably a better way to do it..If you actually have a AC-90 in your hands and use it and it has issues then you have a right to say it's not as good as your HMC40 ... I used HMC82's for 2 years then used the AC-130 for 3 months and went back to HMC82's...that gave me a chance to use the cameras at maybe a dozen weddings and I really didn't like it BUT that was based no on specs but actually usage and 80 hours of footage. That time period gave me the right to an opinion as both cameras were used extensively (I still prefer my HMC82's image quality, colour and audio BTW!!!!) I have been looking around for a smaller unit for the stedicam so any input from yourself after you have used the AC-90 and compared it to the HMC40 would be much appreciated.

User feedback is way, way better than factory videos or pre-release videos ...and after using an AC-90 you can certainly post your own opinion, good or bad

Chris
 
Sure Chris and Noire my friend should have it soon and will be doing some jewellery add and outdoor store's shots more than enough to check out.
If I'm concerned about this is because I want to stay with Panasonic, and not sure if in this fast changing world will be a good idea going to a
AG-HPX600 P2 HD $ 14.000
 
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noirist said:
Remember how concerned you were when you saw the aliasing in the BMCC color resolution chart? How is this GH3 footage any different?
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It's only different in that a) it was a chart, which leaves zero room for error, and b) it was shot by someone (JB) who knows exactly what he's doing, and c) the file uploaded was a camera-original DNG, so imo it was a best-case scenario where there's no possible room for error, and the BMC (imo) failed spectacularly in that best-case scenario. It was a definitive test, there was no way around it, there was no other possible explanation.

As for the GH3, I haven't seen any comprehensive repeatable testing that verifies the issue, and frankly I haven't really followed it that much, to be honest. I think the GH3 looks interesting, I like my GH2 despite some shortcomings, and I would expect the GH3 to be a GH2+. And one thing I like about the GH2 is that there is zero colored moire. I am not expecting the GH3 to be a big reversal on that, but I am aware that there's been some rumblings and grumblings about it, so it would be the first thing I'd be looking at before plunking money down on one.

I'm not defending the GH3's image quality, because frankly I haven't bothered to assess it at all yet. What I defended (if anything) was that a camera the OP had never used, was being indicted based on an online video, where the person who posted the video even put in his own comments:
"For all that didn't saw this vimeo.com/52019304 video this one is much better then mine and shot on the same day. It's clear that my camera wasn't set up properly".
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So before someone condemns a product as not performing well, it would be at least nice to have actual representative properly-shot video from someone who's confident that they've done it right. That's what JB did with the BMC. This particular video posted here, the shooter doesn't have confidence in it, so neither do I.

Now, that said, are there any examples out there of a properly-shot, competently-shot chart from the GH3 that is comparable to what JB did with the BMC? That would/should answer all questions related to the moire issue once and for all.
 
Very reasonable.

Personally, I'm concerned about the GH3 video image quality based on the Vimeo footage. I suspect that the GH3 has a Sony sensor like the E-M5 and wonder if that forced Panasonic to use line skipping read out in the GH3 instead of pixel binning like the GH1/GH2. What a tragedy that would be.
 
noirist said:
Personally, I'm concerned about the GH3 video image quality based on the Vimeo footage. I suspect that the GH3 has a Sony sensor like the E-M5 and wonder if that forced Panasonic to use line skipping read out in the GH3 instead of pixel binning like the GH1/GH2. What a tragedy that would be.
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I've found that it's best to avoid the hysteria that can accompany new releases, and wait for solid factual information before making a decision.

It may very well be that the GH3 has rainbow moire now due to some Sony sensor. Or that could be a load of internet-rumor bollocks. I don't know. And I frankly don't stress out about it so much. The product will be released, and when it's released reasonable people who know what they're doing will get their hands on it, and then definitive results will be posted, and then informed decisions can be made. Until then, ignore the buzz and hype, because -- well, heck, it seems like everybody in the world wants to camp in line overnight to be the first to get whatever new gizmo is introduced, but -- is there *really* any benefit to doing that? Does anyone remember who the first guy was to get the DVX100? Or who got the first HVX200? Or the first Scarlet? Or the first iPhone? Really, it doesn't matter.

So, yes, that means I'm way behind the times in pixel-peeping GH3 footage, even though I think that specs-wise, the GH3 could be a monster hit. But I'm okay with waiting for facts, rather than making judgements based on rumors or vimeo-released footage from people who don't know how to use the camera yet.
 
Felipe Henao said:
Thanks God as an old BH customer, they accepted a refund on the pre order from the GH3 after watching this undecent video quality and the HMC40 is in $ 1650 including XLR adapter
AC90 is probably the same way, a lot of fake advertising for a bad camera, Panasonic is loosing money per second going down the hill

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How could anyone base an opinion or use this terribly shot video to make a buying decision. I would honestly be embarassed to even put that video out there. Yes it's that bad. If a dvxuser member produced this, then I'm sorry for the harsh words. But my statement still stands. I wouldn't take that video with more than a grain of salt.
 
Barry_Green said:
As for the GH3, and I would expect the GH3 to be a GH2+.
I'm not defending the GH3's image quality, because frankly I haven't bothered to assess it at all yet. What I defended (if anything) was that a camera the OP had never used, was being indicted based on an online video, where the person who posted the video even put in his own comments:

So before someone condemns a product as not performing well, it would be at least nice to have actual representative properly-shot video from someone who's confident that they've done it right. That's what JB did with the BMC. This particular video posted here, the shooter doesn't have confidence in it, so neither do I.

Now, that said, are there any examples out there of a properly-shot, competently-shot chart from the GH3 that is comparable to what JB did with the BMC? That would/should answer all questions related to the moire issue once and for all.
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Barry confirmed GH3 is loaded with Moire and aliasing, and so far what we have seen AC90 Pana lens is far from Leica's

 
I just watched that video and I didn't see any noticeable rainbow moire. There was some aliasing, but it didn't look any different from what the GH2 does.

As for the AC90, it looks better than the HMC40, and in bright light it looks very competitive with the bigger-chip AC130/AC160.
 
Barry_Green said:
As for the AC90, it looks better than the HMC40, and in bright light it looks very competitive with the bigger-chip AC130/AC160.
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Barry, You just gave me the right thinking, GH3 image quality problems, If I want a better camera should pay more.
1/3 gives better low light performance and other things, I decided to put more bonds, and will be buying the 160 A, THAT IS HOW THE WORLD MOVES
Want more pay more, Autofocus is a feature a rarely use in the HMC40 so is not an issue for me, I´m sorry about all this, I personally prefer the HMC40 over the AC90 BECAUSE OF THE SIZE.
But since my idea is to step up I'll go with 160A, Again thank you for your answers to the some times UN respectful questions.
 
Like Felipe, I like the 40 for its image quality relative to physical size. I don't think that there is anything (or very few) that can deliver the image quality at such a small size. The 90 may be more cam, but it is larger as well, so they really fit in different boxes.

Grant
 
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