RedRock Mattebox videos

Des anyone know how heavy is the RR MB? I mean is it as heavy as the Arri MB20 or...
...I'm concerned about the usability on steadicams etc.
I see it wobbles a bit too on the rods but that has more to do with the rods than with the design of the MB I assume.

Thanks,
T
 
Ted Spencer said:
In the spirit of fair play to Brian, Andrew and everyone else at RedRock, I'm happy to report that I received notification yesterday that my mattebox and filter set has shipped! It should be in my hot little hands by Tuesday the 29th.

I'll report again when I've had some time to play around with it.
Click to expand...

Lucky you. I'm a reservation holder too and haven't heard squat as far as a shipping confirmation. Maybe all the static you've generated begot some good will in hopes you'd clam up. Either way this really sucks. Last week I had to rent a Chrosziel for 130.00 for the week and if I don't have an MB by Thurs, I got to do it again for another week long gig. Since the old release anouncement of early July, I've probably dropped, close to 300.00 in subrentals. Yeah, I ***** and moan about this but if there was a realistic release date (after they took my money/start up capital), I would've asked for a refund and bought a Chrosziel.

You figure once they grab your cash, shipping shouldn't be far behind - at least in the ethical business world. I now feel so naive. At least SG and Letus pretty much stuck to their lead times, allowing me to plan around it. Now the price of subrentals plus the RR price since RR took my money has exceeded the price of a Chrosziel. That hurts. I would've much rather had the Chrosziel if the price were the same. They are now, more or less in my case. So many times, I was tempted to cancel my order, get a refund and buy a box, but then I'd get this now moot memo from RR saying "it's just around the corner, release anyday". I should've read between the lines :"We need your cash, don't cancel, we're not really sure when this thing will be out, but if we make you believe it's real soon, you won't cancel and our capital will be intact". I don't think the people at RR are people with ill intent but the results are no different.

These way early announcements I believe are not innocent mistakes but shrewd calculations to tie up capital and future markets in a very small niche market. You buy a mattebox now, you're not buying another for a few years. You announce a great product for half the going price, take money and string along release dates, you've tied up a sizeable chunk of the market for however long your market's patience lasts. It wouldn't take much to "corner" the mattebox market. Perhaps you think this is overblown, but this is exactly what happened. Countless folks delayed their purchases based on strung out hopes. Had they've been giving a "real" release date or it was announced when it was more or less ready to ship (ie. mac, zacuto, etc), a good deal of orders would've went elsewhere never to be seen again until two or three years down the road.

I know there are eternal apologists out there who'll cry that we must cut them slack as they're on the cutting edge of design and price. Well, someone's on the cutting edge of something every month these days. New and great product releases are routine. So realistic/honest announcements and not using people's cash as an investment / start up capital unless explicitly stated should be par for the course. The very least they should do is discount the lost interest or offer free shipping or 20 percent off on their next purchase, etc.

This is one instance where I can say, I feel hosed. I can never prove intent but actions speak for themselves. A slap in the face whether someone loves or hates you is by any other name still a slap in the face. When I get the MB, I'm done with RR.

As Barry mentioned in an earlier thread, if you plan to use it for work, buy the best now and don't look back. Good gear pays for itself and waiting on empty promises costs you dearly. This experience was a test of faith for the boutique builder as I've always been a supporter of small businesses. But in the end I'll only patronize those with sound customer service records: Zacuto, SG, Peter Lisand, Rob Dubree are a few that come to mind. I'd trust any pre-release announcements they make. In any relationship trust or lack of it goes a long way.

Tim Naylor - Director - DP
www.timnaylor.com
 
Last edited:
Tim Naylor said:
Lucky you. I'm a reservation holder too and haven't heard squat as far as a shipping confirmation. Maybe all the static you've generated begot some good will in hopes you'd clam up.
Click to expand...

That has crossed my mind. Another explanation might be order date. Mine was confirmed by RR on Tuesday April 15th. I believe I placed it a few days before then, on Friday the 11th IIRC.

To recap the entire shipping delay situation, when I ordered the MatteBox they projected a shipping date of "up to 40 business days". That's 8 weeks, or 56 actual days, so counting from April 15th that meant June 10th *at the latest* (re: "up to").

It actually shipped on July 24th, 100 days later, almost twice as long as originally estimated.

But they managed to make it all so much worse by repeatedly announcing new dates they'd fail to meet. The first delay was on June 4th, less than a week before the original "up to" date. They referred to it as "short", but then said "fortunately the delay isn't long - a matter of a few weeks". That's "short"? On an 8 week time line? I don't think so...

So those of us who had been waiting patiently muttered under our collective breath and soldiered on...

Then, two weeks later, on June 18th, they announced that a July 15th ship date was "...99%. Very certain". So again, a bright, apology-free smile was pasted on the face of the fact that a "short", "few weeks" translated into 35 days...

But...

No...

With barely a hitch in their breezy editorial stride, less than 2 weeks later, on July 1st, they announced a revised "final shipping date", and then another on the 15th, along with an almost inexplicably self-congratulatory "Hooray!". I'm not sure which of those two announcements promised July 21st, since the linked pages have been updated since. In either case, as I previously posted, the "21st" promise lasted until that exact day, when it was again revised to the 26th.

They beat that by 2 days in my case (perhaps as Tim says because I've been pretty noisy about it here).

------------

I note while rereading the RR forums as I retraced this story an all too typical case of what passes for an "apology" from these folks (who have yet to actually issue a real one that I'm aware of). On June 6th, in response to numerous posters getting pretty darn steamed over the situation, "I'm sorry to hear you're unhappy with the service" was the response to one of them. Call me a tough old SOB if you like, but that sounds a little too much to me like 'apologizing' for running someone over by saying "I'm sorry you were in the way of my car".

The above quote from RR is from an 11 page thread on their forum, started (by them) on June 4th, which generated dozens of angry posts from many, many frustrated MB customers. That's as close to an apology as you'll find anywhere in it. There are numerous admonitions from RR for folks to keep their cool, but RR seems to be about as light on contrition as they are on meeting delivery dates.

On the other hand, each and every mention of anything like progress toward the goal, which of course included all of the soon-to-be-unmet ship dates etc., was couched in plenty of self-congratulatory hoopla.

I found it all deeply disappointing.

Again, in fairness, the MB looks to be great, and I'm very happy with my FF unit now that the horrendously defective gearbox has been replaced and the speed crank finally arrived (many weeks later). I'm also quite intrigued with the remote FF project they're working on.

But I dread having to work with the company again, and would otherwise jump to any worthy competitor without a moment's hesitation.

Sorry to put it to you this way Brian and Andrew, but the story deserves telling.

And you know...there I go, apologizing myself, to the guys who never do. I must be nuts...
 
Last edited:
My order was made April 18th. I hope it arrives this week. But Ted, apologize for stepping on an old ladies toes. Otherwise, it's good to see someone calling it like it is.
 
Brian,

I'm having second thoughts about your fix for the Ex-1. What concerns me is that it seems you are bringing the mattebox a little further away from the lens on the EX-1 than with other cameras. The rubber lens hood solves the donut problem, but what about vignetting.

Will I be able to use 4x4 filters and still not vignette when the EX-1 is at wideangle with this solution? How many filters can I stack using this method?
( I would like 2 or 3!)

Lenny Levy
 
I hear you Ted. Uniteus and myself felt it only appropriate to add our voices to the chorus. I also understand Tim's experience, as I could have purchased the Chrosziel gear, but for the price differential. The folks at AbelCine, walking distance here in NYC, have them in stock for sale & rental. My sales guy who prepped my Ex-1 back in Feb, thought I was crazy for not going Chrosziel, and waiting for RR. Just last week, I was there chatting about the RED, and he asked with a knowing look, "so Chuck, how do you like your RR mattebox?"

In a perverse way and in spite of the pain of the RR experience, I think this will prove to be good for the market. The small guys who make good on promises, sales and customer service like Letus, Cinevate, SG, Cavision, etc. are rewarded with positive word of mouth and repeat business while discouraging these kind of experiences, and challenging RR to improve. Certainly we all want better prices and performance, where price matters, but above all else .... integrity is paramount.

For example, I know a got who got a hold of some of the Hyson Films
product line, http://www.hysonfilms.com/, and he raved about the price and quality. However Hyson was apparently having some behind the scenes problems, and has had a note on their site indicating that they aren't taking any orders, because they can't fulfill them in a timely fashion. I for one, respect that they consider the old fashioned standard of saying what one means-- in a timely fashion to be sacrosanct. Believe me it meant a lot when Letus quoted me a time frame, and beat their delivery projection by 2 days.

So in a nutshell, the buzz about these experiences ultimately determine who stays around. It's not simply about great prices or great products, its how the customers feel after ponying up their $$. I suspect that things will get better for everyone. Clearly Brian and Andrew do respond. However, in our current economy everything matters, so I hope they have, or develop the infrastructure and will to deliver.
 
as with any new product launch small company or big, i find it is almost always better to wait until you're getting the 2nd or 3rd gen products off the assembly line. You can read reviews from real people and you know they're shipping and worth your money.

It's hard in this case because it was supposed to be a game changing product price/performance wise and i suppose it will be but as Barry says, if you can't afford to wait, you'll just have to buy the best at the time.
 
Toenis - weight specs are on the microMatteBox page at http://www.redrockmicro.com/microMattebox.html

Lenny - -We've had customers who have used that setup with no vignetting problems at two stages, but I would not recommend three. The 'bringing it away further than other cameras" is because of the EX1's design.

To all other comments on this thread, we also are not happy with the situation (to say the least), and apologize openly and without hesitation. While you individually are concerned for your mattebox, we are concerned about everyone who still has not received theirs. We have done our best to explain the situation and the uncertainty in a new product release, and more importantly we are doing everything we can to get them out as fast as possible.

We will not again take deposits prior to product being available and ready for shipping. Actions will speak louder than words on this point


Brian
 
Last edited:
Hi Brian,

Will you guys be at IBC this year? I'm really interested in having a look at it first hand before I place an order for my EX1.

Cheers
David
 
David - yes, we will be exhibiting with Production Gear. Please do come by and check it out.

Thanks

Brian
 
That is good news... I'll drive up from Munich to see you then... Wanna a beer from Munich?

Cheers

David
 
Thanks Brian.

2 stage is good . Actually i have sometimes used 2 grads and a polarizer but I could use a 77mm round pola and it would not affect the distance at all - hence 3 filters.

I like round polas anyway as the 4x4's can vignette at 45 degrees.

Lenny
 
Lenny

I just tested on a Z1 with wide angle 16:9 adapter (the company, not the aspect ratio) and we found two stages were fine, we just needed to pop out the widescreen matte


Brian
 
I don't know how the Z1 would compare , but with a wide angle adapter added that does sound pretty good. Is that with 4x4's?

Lenny
 
28th came and went and still no sign of a shipping order. So much for reservation holder hopes. Reserving a mattebox for shoot starting Thursday for a week. Yeah, I'm fuming. On the other hand, my Ultimate just came in as promised. A bit of faith restored.

Tim Naylor
 
Tim,

I feel your pain. I received my Ultimate last Saturday, but the B4 relay is delayed
by a couple of months. For fun, I mounted it to the end of a Fujinon ENG zoom lens on my HDX900. It looks like a rocket launcher, but I'm having so much fun
shooting things around my place with it, that I haven't even looked at it on charts, or done a white shading lens file.

I also have the RR matte box on order, but just ordered it recently. I have a few
Chrosziels, but non swing away or have step down rings that are small enough.
 
It's the 31st. Nothing. Not a confirmation number. Not a word. Just subrented a Chrosziel again bringing my subrental total since July 10th up to 250.00. I don't even want to add it up since I placed my order on April 18th, or since I became a "reservation" holder (whatvever that means). At this point, I will have paid for Chrosziel with a swing way and three stages. You tell what's better. Never again.

I'll bet good money it doesn't go out this week and gets delayed once more. Just sick and tired of the BS and feel ripped off having my money tied up this long. As we say in Brooklyn, total slimeball stuff.

Tim Naylor - DP
 
Jeff, give me a shout, We should get together and compare adapters.
Which achromats do you have for the Ultimate - will it work with the EX-1?


Lenny Levy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top