red workflow

C

columbus171

New member
Hi All
I was wondering if it would be possible to digitize Red's live output with audio, take the HD-SDI output put it though a HD-SDI to SD-SDI converter and send to a laptop running Avid with mojo (or final cut pro), also at the same time recording redcode or redraw to flash drive or raid. When your finished the days shoot take your project and extrenal drive with video footage on it from laptop, transfer these to main desktop computer and do your offline edit. Once this is completed generate an edl and conform using the redcode or redraw footage. This way you would only have to convert redraw or redcode footage you need from redcine and not all of your rushes.

The problems would be that none of the footage would have embedded timecode making an edl pointless, and the ability to match back your live digital output footage to redraw or redcode very difficult. Would it be feasible to embed matching timecode or medadata in to the redraw data and the hd-sdi outout or is this just not a very practical or productive way to work? Sorry if this has been answered in some other thread.
Thanks in advance for any replies.
 
Well, you'd find the data rate for compressed HD, what, ~100 to 200 mbits depending on codec. And your 4k RAW redcode at around 210mbit/s, so you'd not be saving much at all and adding a tether and extra expense of the field NLE.

Graeme
 
Workflow

Workflow

Its an interesting idea, and regarding timecode, you would get common timecodes embedded in the HD-SDI output and what gets recorded internally.

However, I suspect that the storage, mobility and perhaps even timesavings from recording REDCODE and just downconverting to the DVCPRO HD codec for use as an offline with an Avid or Apple NLE will probably outweigh any advantages of an alternative technique. Still its worth testing the idea out in practice.
 
I guess the practicality of this idea will largely come down to how quickly Redcine can convert Redcode Raw into a format that will be viewable for rushes and offline editing.

I hope Redcine will have a high speed auto conversion mode using gamma and white balance settings from the metadata. This would be great for all those times you need to view and/or cut the footage straight away.

You can do a high quality online later.
 
redcode workflow

redcode workflow

Thanks for your reply, if you had already converted the hd to sd before you digitise on set at say 3:1 then that would significantly reduce your data rate. How long does it take to convert redcode to dvcprohd or some other video format in order to use offline footage, if redcode takes maybe 1 or 2 times duration of rushes, then no it's probably not worth it but if converting red raw takes longer then it could save days over a longer shoot. If both codes of red raw and the hd-sdi out are the same then would there be any significant problems conforming.
Thanks
 
Could you not tap directly into the LCD monitor / EVF feed to record your low res rushes? This is already 720p, no? Is the EVF image a proper downres.... a resampling of pixels... a full 4K res image scaled to fit the 720p monitor???
 
Well last I remember it was noted that all outputs are live all the time, so yes, recording REDCODE RAW to hard drive while simultaneously feeding HD-SDI to a capture card for instant computer capture should be possible and will probably be quite common on sets that want instant feedback to check performances etc.
 
ZaneIsNumber1 said:
I guess the practicality of this idea will largely come down to how quickly Redcine can convert Redcode Raw into a format that will be viewable for rushes and offline editing.

I hope Redcine will have a high speed auto conversion mode using gamma and white balance settings from the metadata. This would be great for all those times you need to view and/or cut the footage straight away.

You can do a high quality online later.
Click to expand...
Yes, lets hope for a fast way of previewing and a preset auto conversion feature to a couple of standard settings.

However even if it is superfast, it is still not as fast and convenient as having two separate files ready right away. Like shooting still RAW and JPG at the same time, the JPG is so small it doesn't affect the storage at all. But it is way faster to do a quick edit with or send via FTP, it can be handed to the client on the day of the shoot, they know it is not perfect in color, but good enough to make an edit.

My vote is for capturing redcode 4K inside to a big drive and then simultaneously capturing a smaller file to the same drive, or maybe even to a separate drive with a heavily compressed format all NLE's understand.

It would be great if this feature was there without having to add a separate feed and another recorder, just in camera directly. When you offload your drive one goes to storage the other can stay on a laptops drive to play around with.
 
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columbus171 said:
Hi Graeme
Do you think it will be possible to view redcode raw, convert it and offline on a laptop like a mac book pro?
Click to expand...

Hey columbus, with the right answer to this question we have really entered the "new world" of film making.
 
Graeme any possibility that we could take advantage of the Wavelett compression and only load the level of resolution we need to edit?

Theoretically a 4k image encoded with a wavelett compression scheme could also simultaneously be a 1080p image. It seems like with a fancy codec you could "open" either the 1080p file sequence, or the 4k without generating a proxy.
 
im.thatoneguy said:
Graeme any possibility that we could take advantage of the Wavelett compression and only load the level of resolution we need to edit?

Theoretically a 4k image encoded with a wavelett compression scheme could also simultaneously be a 1080p image. It seems like with a fancy codec you could "open" either the 1080p file sequence, or the 4k without generating a proxy.
Click to expand...

Love the way this thread is going.

It seems this solution would accomodate for both an OK laptop in the field and a better computer at home base. Perhaps the "open" function could be variable to whatever you have tested your computer as being able to handle.
 
Graeme_Nattress said:
Via the power of wavelets, 4k can be 2k can be 1k, with rapid extraction. So, yes.

Graeme
Click to expand...

Thanks Graeme,

So most systems will be able to handle this in the field then, I guess as long as the ports and storage drives are able to handle 27MB/s.

When you put together the specs next time, would it be possible to get the info of what computer would be needed to extract in realtime the 4k, 2k and 1k examples that you listed above. Perhaps a top of the line Mac Pro for 4k and a mac book pro for 2k and almost anything for 1k?

And is this the functionality that David Newman was talking about where if you stopped the timeline, the higher res would then load or somehow be available, to check focus or whatever, in case youre working off a laptop.
 
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