Red Scarlet vs F3

Tv is still 720-1080p and going to be that way for a while. No doubt shooting at a higher resolution would still yield better results, but I honestly think there's still a lot of time left in 720-1080p cameras. Heck just going from a dslr to a true 1080p camera like an F3 for me was an amazing leap. I love what RED is doing, but the market outside of serious professionals is just not there. Also with how everything is going viral, many of RED's high quality footage is just not really seen online.
 
I own both.

Let me tell you. 4k is not hype. Its a very serious tool. The RAW workflow, is incredibly useful, and the high res is the end of aliasing.

That said, nothing is for free. The Scarlet is horrendous in low light and really is only good at 640 iso. That's it. The F3 trounces it in lattitude, low light performance and S/N ratio.

Different tools for different jobs. I'm working on an article with footage to point out the pros and cons. (I'm assuming F3 can also mean c300)
 
tom.wong said:
well i guess the better question is, why when doing sensor size comparisons, the Epic is said to have a bigger chip, and R1 MX is always said to have a smaller one? when they are both identical in size, and we are just using less of the chip on the R1 MX and thus have reduced field of view. These are conflicting sources of information.
Click to expand...

They are from the same family but different sizes. They way it evolved was this. R1 came out with the Mysterium sensor (M sensor). During the research and development for the Epic the Mysterium-X technology was developed. Sensor upgrades for the R1 were offered. For a price the R1's could then be MX'd to have the Mysterium-X sensor.

Finally the Epic was released with a sensor from the MX family but with higher resolutions. Research on the Dragon sensor was announced. Scarlet is an Epic sensor with reduced frame rates and data throughput (less or limited asics)

EPIC format sizes:


5120 x 2700 • 5K Full Frame
4800 x 2700 • 5K HD
5120 x 2560 • 5K 2:1
5120 x 2160 • 5K 2.37:1
4480 x 1920 • 4.5 Wide
4096 x 2304 • 4K 16:9
3840 x 2160 • 4K HD
4096 x 2048 • 4K 2:1
4096 x 1706 • 4K 2.4:1
3072 x 1728 • 3K 16:9
2880 x 1620 • 3K for HD
3072 x 1536 • 3K 2:1
3072 x 1280 • 3K 2.4:1
2048 x 1152 • 2K 16:9
2048 x 1024 • 2K 2:1
2048 x 853 • 2K 2.4:1
1920 x 1080 • 1080 HD


RED ONE Mysterium-X format sizes:


4480 x 1920 • 4.5 Wide
4096 x 2304 • 4K 16:9
3840 x 2160 • 4K HD
4096 x 2048 • 4K 2:1
3072 x 1728 • 3K 16:9
2880 x 1620 • 3K for HD
3072 x 1536 • 3K 2:1
2048 x 1152 • 2K 16:9
2048 x 1024 • 2K 2:1
1920 x 1080 • 1080 HD


4K anamorphic: 2816 x 2304
3K anamorphic: 2112 x 1728
2K anamorphic: 1408 x 1152

Source: LINK

Also good info here

Deanan - what's 5120x2700 in millimeters?
27.648mm x 14.580mm

LINK
 
Last edited:
TimurCivan said:
I own both.

Let me tell you. 4k is not hype. Its a very serious tool. The RAW workflow, is incredibly useful, and the high res is the end of aliasing.

That said, nothing is for free. The Scarlet is horrendous in low light and really is only good at 640 iso. That's it. The F3 trounces it in lattitude, low light performance and S/N ratio.

Different tools for different jobs. I'm working on an article with footage to point out the pros and cons. (I'm assuming F3 can also mean c300)
Click to expand...

I love working with RAW - just I'm not crazy about RED's implementation of it. Its early yet but I look forward to refined workflows in the future. Even more than that ... I'm looking forward to your comparison article !
 
I'm surprised about the latitude superiority, as I have an FS100 and Scarlet but I haven't compared the two, because I still don't have any touchscreen or side handle!! F3/FS100 not the same thing I know, but similar. Look forward to your test!

TimurCivan said:
I own both.

The F3 trounces it in lattitude, low light performance and S/N ratio.

(I'm assuming F3 can also mean c300)
Click to expand...
 
TimurCivan said:
I own both.

Let me tell you. 4k is not hype. Its a very serious tool. The RAW workflow, is incredibly useful, and the high res is the end of aliasing.

That said, nothing is for free. The Scarlet is horrendous in low light and really is only good at 640 iso. That's it. The F3 trounces it in lattitude, low light performance and S/N ratio.

Different tools for different jobs. I'm working on an article with footage to point out the pros and cons. (I'm assuming F3 can also mean c300)
Click to expand...

I spent last week testing a Scarlet and I have to agree with your assessment. I think you really see how amazing 4K is when you start pushing it around in post. Amazing. But the camera does have some limitations.

One question, we had two Scarlets and on both cameras we noticed a definite flicker with moving subjects in HDR mode. Since it was both cameras I'm assuming it wasn't a camera flaw, but before blaming the camera I'd like to rule out the possibility that it could have been a user flaw in some way. Maybe we had some in camera setup wrong or something. Any experience with this?

The only thing I might disagree with is assuming F3 (or at least F3 with S-Log) means C300. Again, the difference between 8-bit and 10-bit in post is- at least to me- fairly significant.
 
It might not be your cameras. The flicker on some types of movement when using HDR doesn't just effect Scarlet, it's the same with Epics too! It usually occurs when highlights and shadows meet at a hard fast moving edge in the frame. It doesn't always need it, but one solution is to add a little bit of motion blur to the x-track... not much, just enough to disguise the problem.
 
Max Smith said:
The only thing I might disagree with is assuming F3 (or at least F3 with S-Log) means C300. Again, the difference between 8-bit and 10-bit in post is- at least to me- fairly significant.
Click to expand...

I'm just saying Scarlet vs current s35 1080p cameras in the +10k price range. its not a quantitative statement between F3 and C300.
 
Im wondering what the latest SONY rumors concerning a successor of the F3? The camera has been for a little while now, any idea when it's going to be replaced... If Sony could make a modular design of it with 10b output, 1080 60p, a little better spec than the actual F3 chip well i forget the Scarlet or C300 im sold and it's where i want to spend my 15-20k $...

__________________________________________________________

Vincent Thomas
Creative Director / Artist on Film
Actually on Riddley Scott's Prometheus until March '12
http://www.stranger-than-paradise.book.fr/
 
If they put 1080 / 60p in the F3 I would 100% be sold, I can't lug an external recorder around a mountain all day.
 
If only one option is allowed, i will prefer the modular ergonomic design of the c300 over the 1080/60p option. Now it's obvious that at this technology time, we are all waiting for both now
 
vincent thomas said:
Im wondering what the latest SONY rumors concerning a successor of the F3? The camera has been for a little while now, any idea when it's going to be replaced...
Click to expand...
I thought I had one of the first F3's... and it's not even a year old yet?

My one option would be for 50Mbps so I don't need an external recorder for broadcast clients.
 
Cancelled my Scarlet order. I put my order in the night of the announcement and mine was ready to ship right before Christmas. After reviewing and comparing footage, I decided that other than 4K, it didn't offer anything better than my SLOG'd F3.
That coupled with the "we might ship the complete package, we might not...you'll just have to deal". is not cool with me.

Have no regrets at ALL about my decision...I'm with the others: give me 60P at 1080 and I'm a happy camper!:love4:
 
Either.

The beauty of the F3 is that its scalable from SXS, WAY up to LOG 444 uncompressed.
 
PaulReam said:
It might not be your cameras. The flicker on some types of movement when using HDR doesn't just effect Scarlet, it's the same with Epics too! It usually occurs when highlights and shadows meet at a hard fast moving edge in the frame. It doesn't always need it, but one solution is to add a little bit of motion blur to the x-track... not much, just enough to disguise the problem.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that! Will give it a try.
 
TimurCivan said:
Either.

The beauty of the F3 is that its scalable from SXS, WAY up to LOG 444 uncompressed.
Click to expand...

..and that's exactly why I bought one. One day Im shooting XDCAM EX or 422 ProRes for a doc in some third world country and the next, s-log(rented) 444 for a feature or commercial. If I was only shooting one specific type of work I might have made a different decision, maybe.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top