Red Scarlet footage anyone?

[J Bellari]

The Scarlet is the Epic, the Epic is a High Resolution/Framerate Scarlet

The footage is interchangable at 4k... so go watch some EPIC shoots, and then buy a Scarlet...

Its as easy as that.

I hear that quote a lot about them being "the same", but isn't the reality that most Epic owners shoot
5K and finish to 1080p 16:9?

If you finish at 4k from 5K RAW file, they are definitely not the same, but maybe not so important for 1080p...

Maybe I am wrong?

 

[Zacatac]

Most Epic owners shoot 5k for a possible 4k finish, but end up downressing to 1080p for web delivery.

SCarlet will shoot at 4k, for a finish at 3k, or 2k, and downres to 1080p for web delivery.

So watching EPIC footage at 1080p will be similar, if not exactly what Scarlet will look like at 1080p, aside from less pixels to downres from.

Epic at 4k, is Scarlets 4k
Epic at 3k is Scarlets 3k.


and so on, only the framerates and redcode ratios are different.

 

[Perry Wilson]

Most Epic owners shoot 5k for a possible 4k finish, but end up downressing to 1080p for web delivery.

SCarlet will shoot at 4k, for a finish at 3k, or 2k, and downres to 1080p for web delivery.

So watching EPIC footage at 1080p will be similar, if not exactly what Scarlet will look like at 1080p, aside from less pixels to downres from.

Epic at 4k, is Scarlets 4k
Epic at 3k is Scarlets 3k.


and so on, only the framerates and redcode ratios are different.

This couldnt be further from the truth, Epic at 4K is NOT Scarlet at 4K, the scarlet is built on ASICS that FAILED for Epic... It is built of tech that was thrown away because it didnt produce for what they were looking for out of the EPIC, Scarlet will have a much hight compression then Epic, therefore making ther footage WORSE at 4K than Epics best at 4K

 

[Bob Gnarly]

This might be a silly question.. For online purposes lets say (commercial) 1080p what would be cleaner Scarlet footage or 5d footage?

 

[LiamR]

Not really an easy question to answer without any footage yet from the Scarlett, but one would assume the RED.

 

[Zacatac]

This couldnt be further from the truth, Epic at 4K is NOT Scarlet at 4K, the scarlet is built on ASICS that FAILED for Epic... It is built of tech that was thrown away because it didnt produce for what they were looking for out of the EPIC, Scarlet will have a much hight compression then Epic, therefore making ther footage WORSE at 4K than Epics best at 4K

Epic 5k is APS-H sized sensor, Epic 4k is cropped to APS-C sized sensor. Same as the Scarlet, its the exact same sensor and asics, just the ones that couldn't handle this high framerates and HDRx. and REDcode compressions.

If you read the last sentence, I say almost exactly that.


If you put an epic and a scarlet side by side, with redcode 7:1 at 24fps 4k, they would look EXACTLY the same. Not exact like T3i and 60D, since they are minor differences. This is EXACT. I don't know how thats hard to comprehend, its the same sensor and a few less asics, just the ones that couldn't handle 5k 24-120fps or HDRx.

 

[stip]

Scarlet will have a much hight compression then Epic, therefore making ther footage WORSE at 4K than Epics best at 4K

Scarlet can record 4K 24fps with 6:1 compression. That's the same ratio 'Spiderman' and other movies have been/are generally shot with. If it's good enough for Hollywood, it's certainly good enough for you and me.

 

[Razz16mm]

This couldnt be further from the truth, Epic at 4K is NOT Scarlet at 4K, the scarlet is built on ASICS that FAILED for Epic... It is built of tech that was thrown away because it didnt produce for what they were looking for out of the EPIC, Scarlet will have a much hight compression then Epic, therefore making ther footage WORSE at 4K than Epics best at 4K

Specs indicate compression ratios, from 3:1 to 18:1 user selectable, are exactly the same for Epic and Scarlet. Just like most of Intel's CPU's don't make the grade to be sold as top of the line Extreme models, get graded to a lower clock speed, and sold for considerably less, Red's ASICS are also going to fall into different speed categories. Not defective, just not up to the super computer data rate requirements of Epic's highest frame rates. Hence 55MB/s rating for Scarlets vs 250MB/sec for Epics. Still more powerful than Red 1 max of 42MB/sec. Has nothing to do with image quality potential, just max frame rates. Same sensor, same ASICS, same software, same image quality, just slower.

 

[Andrew McCarrick]

This couldnt be further from the truth, Epic at 4K is NOT Scarlet at 4K, the scarlet is built on ASICS that FAILED for Epic... It is built of tech that was thrown away because it didnt produce for what they were looking for out of the EPIC, Scarlet will have a much hight compression then Epic, therefore making ther footage WORSE at 4K than Epics best at 4K

Those boards weren't shelved because of quality issues, they shelved them because of throughput issues. They couldn't handle the faster data rates coming out of the sensor that the Epic was speced out to do, so they shelved those parts. You might be looking at marginal reduction of compression choices over the Epic, at the most.

 

[derbrocks09]

I really don't understand this 5d mkIII business. If Canon announced a 3d tomorrow as their new flagship compact ff camera for 2800 and then announced they would also be selling a new cheaper budget version (5d mkIII) with the same sensor as the 5d 2 but with a smaller lcd and lower fps for $950 you wouldnt order one?

Its an Epic people! A lower frame rate Epic for a fraction of the cost.

????

 

[camcam]

I really don't understand this 5d mkIII business. If Canon announced a 3d tomorrow as their new flagship compact ff camera for 2800 and then announced they would also be selling a new cheaper budget version (5d mkIII) with the same sensor as the 5d 2 but with a smaller lcd and lower fps for $950 you wouldnt order one?

Its an Epic people! A lower frame rate Epic for a fraction of the cost.

Not everyone can afford $15-20k. Sure it might be a steal for Epic users but for 5d and 7d users? I think Red is awsome but I can't justify paying $20,000 right now to shoot 4k when everything is 720/1080.

 

[derbrocks09]

I understand that camcam.

I was commenting on those who were stating how foolish it was to order a camera that hasnt been released yet. Just saying, its the same as an Epic, a known quantity.

That was my only point.

 

[Jadotch]

I really don't understand this 5d mkIII business. If Canon announced a 3d tomorrow as their new flagship compact ff camera for 2800 and then announced they would also be selling a new cheaper budget version (5d mkIII) with the same sensor as the 5d 2 but with a smaller lcd and lower fps for $950 you wouldnt order one?Its an Epic people! A lower frame rate Epic for a fraction of the cost.????

My point was that many people who would jump at an untested 5d Mrk III, are posing the question of why others are jumping at the untested Scarlet. That whole "don't throw stones if you live in a glass house" thing. Granted some people are very cautious and wait for test on everything, and that's fair enough.The only thing worse than a RED fanboy is a RED hater.

 

[Razz16mm]

Most Epic shooters that are shooting specifically to finish at 1080p HD will shoot QHD instead of 5k or crop to QHD before scaling down.

 

[Kenneth Fisher]

My point was that many people who would jump at an untested 5d Mrk III, are posing the question of why others are jumping at the untested Scarlet. That whole "don't throw stones if you live in a glass house" thing. Granted some people are very cautious and wait for test on everything, and that's fair enough.The only thing worse than a RED fanboy is a RED hater.

It's not really a question of being a fanboy or hater, it is:

A) The Price: taking a $3,000 leap of faith is a lot less risky than taking a $14,000 (minimum) leap of faith.

B) Track Record: Canon may be conservative, but they are a very well-known manufacturer. They make extremely reliable cameras in my experience. I am not saying RED is unreliable, because I have never used their products. Red makes cool equipment, but there is anecdotal evidence (None that I can confirm personally) of bugs with RED cameras, especially for the early adopters.

C) Returnability: If you buy Canon equipment from the reputable equipment vendors, and you should, you can return a 5D MKIII that doesn't meet your expectations I don't know if that is the case with a C300 priced camera or not.

Again, because I don't have experience with their products, I don't know if that is the case with RED. Is it? Can you return a Scarlet or Epic etc. if the image doesn't suit your tastes, or doesn't work as reliably as you would expect?

***

Personally, I would want to see footage before plunking down money for almost any camera, even a $300 point and shoot, but that's just me.

 

[Duke M.]

Scarlet can record 4K 24fps with 6:1 compression. That's the same ratio 'Spiderman' and other movies have been/are generally shot with. If it's good enough for Hollywood, it's certainly good enough for you and me.

2K is good enough for Hollywood. I don't have to point you any further than Avitar, Benjamin Button and Slum Dog Millionaire, among many, many others. Most everything is finished at 2k even when its displayed on 4k projectors.

Resolution doesn't tell a story.

 

[ROne]

Why are people bothered about what 'other' people do or buy? I couldn't care less what someone else may or may not buy.

Also, they're not buying anything, they're putting deposits down so they can be in a queue ... you still have time to make your mind up.

And second, being in business is about some sort of risk - the people who often get to these things first are often the people that do well out of it. I regret buying a red so late in the day - i mean it got me stage 3.5 but I'm stil behind a lot of other brave people who took a chance.

You certainly don't get anywhere by not doing anything.

 

[Centro]

Why are people bothered about what 'other' people do or buy? I couldn't care less what someone else may or may not buy

+1

 

[Razz16mm]

2K is good enough for Hollywood. I don't have to point you any further than Avitar, Benjamin Button and Slum Dog Millionaire, among many, many others. Most everything is finished at 2k even when its displayed on 4k projectors.

Resolution doesn't tell a story.

Acquisition resolution and finish resolution are two different things. Most major films finished at 2k are still acquired on a 4k resolution medium, film, and scanned at 4k before being reduced to a 2k DI. The whole point of high resolution digital cameras is to match or exceed the quality of 35mm film acquisition in most ways. Oversampling resolution produces better images at the lower resolutions, lower noise and higher MTF for better detail without artifacts.

 

[stip]

Why are people bothered about what 'other' people do or buy? I couldn't care less what someone else may or may not buy.

Also, they're not buying anything, they're putting deposits down so they can be in a queue ... you still have time to make your mind up.

And second, being in business is about some sort of risk - the people who often get to these things first are often the people that do well out of it. I regret buying a red so late in the day - i mean it got me stage 3.5 but I'm stil behind a lot of other brave people who took a chance.

You certainly don't get anywhere by not doing anything.

+1