Red Scarlet Announcement Info

S. Matthews said:
He wanted a digital replacement for 35mm film, 1080 was not enough in his eye's and I agree.
Click to expand...

Jim Janard has always wanted resolution to set his cameras apart. However, 1080 didn't seem to hurt the popularity of Star Wars, Benjamin Button, Slum Dog Millionaire, Avatar and a zillion other big movies. Heck, there are plenty of film stocks that aren't high resolution either.

The truth is stories are not told with resolution. However, color and DOF can help with the story narrative by telling you how to feel, or what to look at.
 
I agree with what you are saying, 1080 works fine, but it's not a perfect(or close) replacement... resolution wise. Film is film and digital is digital so really there will never be a true digital replacement, but that is not necessarily a bad thing as there are some things film just can't do.
 
I'm blind, so forgive me:

The only reason to sell a RED branded 2/3" camera to me is so that you can sell 2/3" RED Mini Primes

I can barely justify messing around with a 4/3" sensor... no thanks to 2/3" for me, when it comes to narrative, music video, commercial cinematography.

If it happens, I'll be using whatever Canon drops or Epic, or Alexa if'n I'm rucky.
 
Kholi said:
I'm blind, so forgive me:

The only reason to sell a RED branded 2/3" camera to me is so that you can sell 2/3" RED Mini Primes

I can barely justify messing around with a 4/3" sensor... no thanks to 2/3" for me, when it comes to narrative, music video, commercial cinematography.

If it happens, I'll be using whatever Canon drops or Epic, or Alexa if'n I'm rucky.
Click to expand...

Gasp. I'm in and out of this board. I totally happened upon this. Imagine my surprise to see this post...juxtaposed to an "instructive" post from my earlier days on this forum.

Ryan Farnes said:
That must've taken hours to shoot.

My take? Both cameras are capable in competent hands. The 7D has superior DOF and a less noise in lower light it seems. I didn't notice aliasing with the 500 like I did in her hair with the 7D with strong backlight.

Impressive nonetheless. However, I can't get over we're comparing 2 1080p capable cameras with 720p mpeg4 compressed videos.
Click to expand...
Kholi said:
How can DOF be superior?.... It's an anomaly of components... or a crutch for most people...
Click to expand...

*chortle*
 
Ryan Farnes said:
Gasp. I'm in and out of this board. I totally happened upon this. Imagine my surprise to see this post...juxtaposed to an "instructive" post from my earlier days on this forum.




*chortle*
Click to expand...

Good memory!

Still not saying one is superior to the other, just saying for my work/preferences I'm not gonna shoot with less than those tools.

Superiority still refers to a measurement between two ideas where one can be ranked higher than the other based on scientific or measurable circumstances.

DOF can't be superior, technically. =]
 
Kholi said:
I'm blind, so forgive me:

The only reason to sell a RED branded 2/3" camera to me is so that you can sell 2/3" RED Mini Primes

I can barely justify messing around with a 4/3" sensor... no thanks to 2/3" for me, when it comes to narrative, music video, commercial cinematography.

If it happens, I'll be using whatever Canon drops or Epic, or Alexa if'n I'm rucky.
Click to expand...

If RED Scarlet stays true to the prototype they demoed a long time ago, and if it is priced around $8k, I would definitely choose that over an EX3 for almost any shoot - you lose the servo zoom, but you get a better codec, larger sensor, (probably) higher resolution, (probably) higher sensitivity, and smaller form factor.

I don't think RED is going to be able to cut into the DSLR market and it's foolish to even try to go there - they can't sell a camera for under $2k, and all the DSLR manufacturers own that market anyways. Even cameras like the AF100 or FS100 fill up that low/mid level pro market. But what's the cheapest 2/3" camera out today? HPX500 which is $10k ++ for the body only? If 2/3" is where Scarlet ends up, I could see them carving a decent niche assuming a fixed lens Scarlet doesn't approach F3 prices.
 
Jim Jannard is trying to future proof his camera (meaning it's value on the market will be considerably longer than the current cycle of most cameras (1-3 years).
He is betting that as we move into 4k eventually, the curent RED will still be viable.
The other thing which I have clear first hand experience with, is that in terms of hybrid usage, I can pull a still from any moment in a video and it's quality level is on par with shooting stills directly.
This is huge moving into the commercial markets which are increasingly desirous of multiple platform ad campaigns and editorial usage. From a rental point of view, I know of several photo studios
which are planning on purchasing RED's soon for this very reason. It supports their main business, which is renting shooting space on a daily basis.

In a way both Canon and RED are counting on the expanding interest of the photography market to sell video, but they are approaching it from opposite price point ends.
 
I certainly would orefer a Priced at 7/8k body interchangeble 2/3, or better s16 size, than a s35 in a 15k body. It would stil be' an amazing price for a 4k S35 seeing where others are at (although we don't know Canon price point yet), but I just would not be able to afford it, so...
 
yoclay said:
The other thing which I have clear first hand experience with, is that in terms of hybrid usage, I can pull a still from any moment in a video and it's quality level is on par with shooting stills directly.
This is huge moving into the commercial markets which are increasingly desirous of multiple platform ad campaigns and editorial usage. From a rental point of view, I know of several photo studios
which are planning on purchasing RED's soon for this very reason. It supports their main business, which is renting shooting space on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

I can see how this would work some of the time, but not all of the time. Low shutter speeds and the lack of strobes freezing movement would be the issue. Assuming 24p is the framerate, 1/48th would be the shutter of choice. No way I am going to try to shoot anybody with a still camera, often handheld, without strobes at this shutter speed. If nothing is moving you might get some useable good shots, but this idea of you can pull a video frame for a Vogue cover is kind of over the top imho. - Unless the shoot was approached from a still point of view with the video settings, (higher than normal shutter speeds and little to no movement).
 
My brother is a stills photographer (fashion) and I was chatting to him about this subject. He was saying that alot of models he works with would find it a bit off putting not having a flash, or at very least, a shutter noise. I guess if the model is used to film work too, it will be no bother... but I can see the point he was getting across.... even on a consumer level, people like that "feedback" of a click or flash going off.

Other than taking stills from footage, does the Epic have dedicated stills features? What is the AF like? Bracketing? Does it have the usual still modes? There doesn't seem to be much info about that side of the DMSC idea.
 
Nov 3 may bring the announcement of more than one camera. 2/3" fixed and interchangeable have both been on the map, but Red has some form of lower end S35 production camera in the works too regardless of what they wind up naming it. Whether that will be part of the Nov 3 package is anybody's guess, but there have been hints that such a camera will be out before the end of the year.

I am very much looking forward to playing across the traditional boundaries between stills and video for images that only a true raw DSMC camera can pull off.
 
Duke M. said:
Jim Janard has always wanted resolution to set his cameras apart. However, 1080 didn't seem to hurt the popularity of Star Wars, Benjamin Button, Slum Dog Millionaire, Avatar and a zillion other big movies. Heck, there are plenty of film stocks that aren't high resolution either.

The truth is stories are not told with resolution. However, color and DOF can help with the story narrative by telling you how to feel, or what to look at.
Click to expand...

Maybe I am wrong, but the movies mentioned above, weren't they all shot on a 2/3rds chip(s)?

If you are coming from a still photographers back ground, cropping helps tell the story as well. So if you finish in 2K, 1080, 720, the extra resolution will give you flexibility. It really depends what you are looking for in a camera, what tools do you want? (Every camera is a compromise of some sort).
 
Last edited:
I think a fixed lens Scarlet with a smaller light ray sensor is most likely. This solves the shallow DOF problem with a smaller sensor while still allowing a smaller camera body. Obviously the fact that a light ray camera is already out for $400 means that the technology is available. The fact that Jannard mentions light ray and yet most of you seem to ignore it is silly. This is obviosuly the direction they are moving in for at least one of the Scarlets. So if I were all of you I would stop talking about a 2/3" Scarlet and start focusing (selectively : ) on a light ray Scarlet and what that might mean.
 
stockfuel said:
My brother is a stills photographer (fashion) and I was chatting to him about this subject. He was saying that alot of models he works with would find it a bit off putting not having a flash, or at very least, a shutter noise. I guess if the model is used to film work too, it will be no bother... but I can see the point he was getting across.... even on a consumer level, people like that "feedback" of a click or flash going off.

Other than taking stills from footage, does the Epic have dedicated stills features? What is the AF like? Bracketing? Does it have the usual still modes? There doesn't seem to be much info about that side of the DMSC idea.
Click to expand...

Yep, no photographer is going to accept doing a shoot like that. I'm the decider dammit. Taking away that shutter click would strip all the energy out of the whole shoot. The model relies on it to know how their doing, and I rely on it to communicate to them that their hot as hell.
 
That's what flash is for. If the Scarlet has a PC sync, the pop of the flash will tell the model WAY more than a shutter sound ever will. In fact, it drowns out the shutter sound. Then the beep of the power pack recharge builds her up.
I find that anyone that puts down a RED camera is because they don't have one. It's proven top lever gear. How many features have you seen shot with it? Film, RED, Alexa, Video cam, Dslr. Thats the chain of command, for now.
 
dustylense said:
That's what flash is for. If the Scarlet has a PC sync, the pop of the flash will tell the model WAY more than a shutter sound ever will. In fact, it drowns out the shutter sound. Then the beep of the power pack recharge builds her up. .
Click to expand...

But if you are limited to the speed of a Flash.. what's the point in pulling frame grabs from video? There are much better still cameras out there with fast enough FPS. also, what if your shooting in natural light?

I'm not knocking RED and enjoyed watching the various Esquire shots, but see it as a bit of a fad... I'm just not sure how the models would respond to making a video rather than doing a photoshoot. Sports/Wildlife on the other hand, I can see huge benefits... as you are using natural light and the talent isn't working the camera.
 
Side handle option does support flash sync. No question shooting motion for stills requires a different mindset and setup from traditional stills photography. But it also opens the door for new aesthetic approaches that neither traditional still cameras nor traditional video cameras can accomplish.
 
stockfuel said:
I'm not knocking RED and enjoyed watching the various Esquire shots, but see it as a bit of a fad... I'm just not sure how the models would respond to making a video rather than doing a photoshoot. Sports/Wildlife on the other hand, I can see huge benefits... as you are using natural light and the talent isn't working the camera.
Click to expand...

You guys are assuming that models cannot change their habits. People are malleable, especially young people. One thing is for sure, new models come along because everyone wants young and hot. A new generation of models will become accustomed to video, especially if they ever have a desire to transition into acting.

I think frame grabs are a good way to go about it. You're likely to get shots the photographer might not have otherwise taken. Plus, with the models knowing they are being shot the whole time, there is more likely to be a flow to the movement rather than just hard poses. You may end up with much more natural looking shots.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top