androbot2084
Carbonite Member
Even if the effective resolution of Scarlett after debayering is only 3K that is still twice the resolution of 1080p.
Red Scarlet Announcement Info
- Thread starter Noel Evans
- Start date
J Davis
Veteran
this statement is so overblown its not funny. I'm not a red fan boy and I try to look at things objectively but I need to call you out on this.
Ki Pro Mini, Samurai, Ninja, Pix220, pix240, or even the $300 black magic intensity extreme to a laptop are all options.
I agree. To me, the Scarlet's just not that tool. C300 is pretty awesome, and I really wish that they would've priced lower but when it's all said and done, well, it's all said and done.
From the way you're talking, I think you recognized it as soon as I did that the C300 had an actual "4K" image crammed down into 1080. It jumped out at me immediately.
I think both cameras will shine as far as resolved detail goes, but DR? Lowlight? Color reproduction?
Mmn... nah...
J Davis
Veteran
bruceallen
Well-known member
EVERYONE IS RIGHT! CALM DOWN!
Epic + external recorder is awesome and can be clean. But it is not getting the full quality out of the RED. It is not as good a full-quality debayer. So Kholi is right too.
Mainly great for editorial offline, then go back to the R3Ds for final color. Especially that Sound Devices box, since it solves the Epic's sound problems at the same time.
Of course, the output might be good enough for lots of stuff. But don't confuse it with full quality.
Maybe even record RedLogFilm for some kind of Alexa / S-Log / Canon LOG-like workflow, but lacking good LUT boxes for monitoring, (you cannot monitor in RedColor2 on the RED LCD or EVF and pipe RedLogFilm out of the HD-SDI at the same time) this might be more trouble than it's worth.
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Epic + external recorder is awesome and can be clean. But it is not getting the full quality out of the RED. It is not as good a full-quality debayer. So Kholi is right too.
Mainly great for editorial offline, then go back to the R3Ds for final color. Especially that Sound Devices box, since it solves the Epic's sound problems at the same time.
Of course, the output might be good enough for lots of stuff. But don't confuse it with full quality.
Maybe even record RedLogFilm for some kind of Alexa / S-Log / Canon LOG-like workflow, but lacking good LUT boxes for monitoring, (you cannot monitor in RedColor2 on the RED LCD or EVF and pipe RedLogFilm out of the HD-SDI at the same time) this might be more trouble than it's worth.
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Erich Ocean
Active member
I'm going to venture a guess that you haven't shot with an Epic yet. Might want to do that before you plan out your whole system around a Scarlet and see how it actually works. There's a lot of surprises. I feel 100% confident in saying you will hit and then exceed the cost of a C300 without blinking an eye, no matter what crazy workarounds you try.
I'm not anti-Red, I've got an Epic-X shipping to me RIGHT NOW for f*cks sake. But people who think the Scarlet is "cheap" are in for a rude-awakening.
Update: And Bruce is right. All of the potential ways to make it cheaper have gotchas. It's a hell of a lot like that Dreamcolor monitor. Cheap sticker, then you add two other pricey gadgets to get it to actually DO the 10-bit thing, and that's only one specific configuration of a specific card, with a particular OS revision, and oh hell, I should have just spent the $5K to get the monitor that really does it to begin with!
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heavyG
Underwater Giraffe Member
Wait until a few of these cameras actually ship - at this point it's all rumour and conjecture about what it'll do / not do.
J Davis
Veteran
yeh .. I'm 3 days back in the queue so mine will come up in 2012 no doubt.
Just wanna go back to the camera agnostic thing.
Some of you may remember me when the 7d came out and I got that baby early in the preorders and flipped my gh1 because I wanted that EOS glass.
Some of you may also remember that I was one of the first (if not the first) to flip my 7d for a T2i because it shoots the same video.
Basically I don't care about the brand or model, if another cam comes out that does what I want and its cheaper then I flip. I'll be watching the canon DSLR's closely over the next few months.
Just wanna go back to the camera agnostic thing.
Some of you may remember me when the 7d came out and I got that baby early in the preorders and flipped my gh1 because I wanted that EOS glass.
Some of you may also remember that I was one of the first (if not the first) to flip my 7d for a T2i because it shoots the same video.
Basically I don't care about the brand or model, if another cam comes out that does what I want and its cheaper then I flip. I'll be watching the canon DSLR's closely over the next few months.
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J Davis
Veteran
I remember you from back when you were against DSLrs altogether, and hung out in the Scarlet forums.
I discovered reduser because of Ian Bloom, and through Kholi's posts there I discovered dvxuser because of Kholi ! Thanks Kholi.
I was never against DSLR's tho. I used to shoot a Pentax back in '87, my first learning camera
Erich Ocean
Active member
You can get a clean feed, however, it does not record a full-raster file at 4KHD, which is all you have access to on the Scarlet. See http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ni-experiences&p=845745&viewfull=1#post845745 for more details. And like Bruce noted, recording RedLogFilm will also make it so that's what you see, so you'll need a LUT box. (FWIW the C300 can record Canon Log and still show you a pretty image on the monitor.)
Stuff like this is why you should borrow or rent an Epic to see how it works, before you spend any more money. RED is full of these little gotchas, and they really don't cater to the ultra low-budget people when it comes to media/recording. They want you to record RedCode RAW, full stop, on ultra high-speed media that'll set you back thousands of dollars, and was designed for the Epic. Which is fine, that's their target market. Not DSLR shooters wanting to move up.
Way, WAY too many people think they need 4K for a theatrical release. I personally don't get it, but there you have it. Jim is clearly a great salesman for 4K.
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Because there's more trouble to shoot IMAX than 35mm. Nolan is huge fan of IMAX and he was planning to shoot the whole new Batman with it (btw he doesn't like 3D), but will only shoot some parts with IMAX like he has done in past films.
J Davis
Veteran
Thanks Erich, I'm aware that its not a full debayer, Stuart English or Deanan actually posted what the difference was but I never kept a log of that post.
Of more concern is the thin black borders LINK so as you can see I'm following developments closely waiting for the firmware update. No need for me to rent an epics, I see them at my day job as I freelance at ad agencies here in Manhattan.
Of more concern is the thin black borders LINK so as you can see I'm following developments closely waiting for the firmware update. No need for me to rent an epics, I see them at my day job as I freelance at ad agencies here in Manhattan.
Erich Ocean
Active member
Oh cool, yeah, that's the full raster problem I mentioned. Sounds like you're going in with your eyes open. Carry on…
They've been filming scene's for Batman literally outside my door for the past 2 weekends and every camera I've seen on set so far has been IMAX. A AC told me they had four of them rolling for some scene's.
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Hey, it's all good. I'm not telling anyone not to buy it. From my extensive experience with RED MX and now EPIC, Scarlet doesn't look like the camera I'd choose to shoot a feature on. I would shell out for the Epic-X, C300, or even go to an F3 w/Slog before Scarlet.
But, that's also just me. So if you want to buy it, then go for it.
Wait, I don't understand. The scarlet is a R1MX at 1/3rd the size. Except it recorder at a higher bit rate. I don't understand the issue here? Why is the scarlet suddenly no good?
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
I don't get the "logic" here either.
It's basically a 4k Epic, but has to window the sensor for higher frame rates.
I'm getting it because it is 4K raw at 24fps. Period.
Everything else is gravy.
It's basically a 4k Epic, but has to window the sensor for higher frame rates.
I'm getting it because it is 4K raw at 24fps. Period.
Everything else is gravy.
Erich Ocean
Active member
It's not that it's "no good" (it is), it's that it's "not cheap". The concern is that people see "less than $10K" and think "sure, it'll cost a little more, but not $5K more". But I guarantee those same people will be dropping $20K-25K on the package without breaking a sweat, when you consider EVERYTHING you actually need to use a RED camera for shooting + post-processing.
In that sense, it's exactly the same as the Red One: $17500 for the body, plus another $25K to get to a realistic, shootable configuration.
For the Scarlet, subtract $7500 from the base price. Add a little back again for the pricey SSD media, and you're back at $30K for a realistic, shootable configuration.
That's the "logic". If all you want is a brain that is 4K RAW @ 24fps for $9700, knock yourself out. But let's not pretend that's what it'll actually cost to, you know, shoot anything.