FS7: Red Raven and FS7

Yes I have. But then I really liked what I could get out of MX stuff so it was a huge improvement on every level for me, even if (along with every product launch ever) it wasn't 1000% everything it was promised to be.
 
RED Raven

RED Raven

Viddovation said:
Red has always been raw workflow oriented. I don't have the time to read the Reduser thread where this camera is being teased out, but my cursory googling doesn't indicate this camera will offer strong compressed codec options. Without compressed codec workflows, it's weak compared to the FS7 for fast turn around work. If you have to get extra modules for things like ProRes support, then the cost of entry is pushed up for those who need that delivery.

The FS7 is capable as a "filmmaker" camera, but it's strength is in it's flexibility to deliver different outputs on any given day.

The Red Raven stands to more directly take aim at Blackmagic and the C300II.

That's what I'd think right now anyways.
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There is no way to compare FS-7 With RAVEN. It will also record Prores if you don´t want to record RAW. It has the same sensor as the weapon only cropped. Now to 4.5K not the announced 4k. Also the compression will be exactly as the Weapon. So you won´t be able to shoot 8k or 6k. I don´t really need that resolution and also the 6k and 8k are not 16:9 even. You´ll have to crop to fit 16:9 hence lowering the resolution (sensor area). So I´ll be prety happy with the 4.5k. One thing is certain it has a RED Weapon dragon sensor at a very low cost. My clients when asking for a RED don´t care if I am giving them a Weapon a RED MX or a Raven. As long as I have RED quality and files I can choose whatever I want...as long as I don´t try to convince them to use a Sony or Black Magic. I thought I could compete on that market with those camers but in fact even after using with excellent results I wasn´t able to make them choose a BMD or a SOny against a RED. Marketing? Probably but this is what I live off so I had to order a Raven on day 1.
 
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I'm more interested in the new Scarlet to be honest, now that it has been hinted at. Current plan is to run the FS7 into the ground and then make it a lovely B-cam or for smaller gigs.
 
Just on Reduser Jared saying it will be announced at NAB and that it will be 'a disruptive little Mofo"

And then saying he knows he won't be able to keep his mouth shut about it until then.
 
Dafilman21 said:
I would love an FS7 and a Raven, but for now a Raven and my C100 will be the combo that I will work with. Until my C100 is no longer up to snuff and when that happens I will move up to a FS5/7 used or whatever else that is out that will allow for run and gun work. This has always been my plan to keep the C100 for the HD no fuss no frills work and go with the Mini or the FS7 for 4k, Log/Raw and higher framerates. As of now I am leaning towards the Raven.
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I will never buy an 8bit camera again. This is one of the reason I will not buy the FS-5. 8bit internal and external recording. The X-70 has a better codec the the FS-5. As I said before I am not interested in RAW. I am more into 10bit Prores codecs.
 
Ben Scott said:
If I had to buy today it would be Raven no contest. That said, I need to see whether financially it makes more sense for me to run the FS7 into the ground instead of buying a new camera after one year.
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Ben: Raven will always have an upgrade policy unlike Sony. Since December I got an FS-7, A7s and 8 months after releasing the A7s sony comes out with A7sII which is basically the same with a 4:2:0 8bit codec to makes us get a new camera just for a stabilizer that most of us don´t use when filming? Then after a few months of releasing the FS-7 they release the 5??? Start adding up and see if it wouldn´t be better for our business to get a Raven? I am tired of spending money in almost obsolete cameras. When one camera comes out it has already reached its lifespan. Ridiculous policy. Instead of renting I will buy RED or Alexa. At least I have nothing to prove to rent the cameras.
 
kikojiu said:
Ben: Raven will always have an upgrade policy unlike Sony. Since December I got an FS-7, A7s and 8 months after releasing the A7s sony comes out with A7sII which is basically the same with a 4:2:0 8bit codec to makes us get a new camera just for a stabilizer that most of us don´t use when filming? Then after a few months of releasing the FS-7 they release the 5??? Start adding up and see if it wouldn´t be better for our business to get a Raven? I am tired of spending money in almost obsolete cameras. When one camera comes out it has already reached its lifespan. Ridiculous policy. Instead of renting I will buy RED or Alexa. At least I have nothing to prove to rent the cameras.
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I definitely hear that. And I can see why the Red upgrade path is appealing.

That said, I think that it is also important to buy what you need. So if you buy an fs7, buy it because it's what you need. Then you don't need to upgrade. I also don't think the FS5 is a replacement for the FS7. When the FS7 came out, I thought it was a decent camera. However, I bought the FS700 and Odyssey 7Q because it gave me a 12bit 4k RAW image and 10bit video images that I could work with. It will never become obsolete for me because the images I get from it are the images I want to get from this level investment. I probably won't sell it. I'll just run it to the ground and keep it working for me. Just like I still do to my HVX200. Those images from the HVX200 will always be nice 720p images that I can always use for low end web work. All this to say that I didn't feel cheated when the FS7 came out. Specially because Sony never operated on an upgrade path.

Those Red upgrades can be so expensive, too. Almost like getting a whole new camera. I just picked up an F65 kit for $15k. How much is the upgrade from red dragon to weapon?

i gotta give it to Raven. It's an appealing camera. If I was in the market for something at the $10k level, I'd definitely consider it. However, there is a lot of competition in that price range. Cameras out there are doing 10bit codecs, internal and RAW and HFR. So I would have to consider whether that Weapon sensor is worth it or not.
 
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The FS5 isn't a patch on the FS7 but that doesn't mean it won't be great for a certain segment of video shooters.

I learned from experience that often times the Red upgrade equates to a trade-in that is worth less than you could get on the open market for your existing camera. The best thing the upgrade path gets you is ahead in the queue of newbies. Which can mean you're there whilst the camera is hot property for 9months.

The best advice I could ever give on the subject of selecting a camera, and the one where I would beseech people to learn from my costly past mistakes, is to buy the camera that will do the job for you now that you can afford and that will pay for itself, and do not give thought to depreciation or resale value or promises of future feature implementations and most certainly do not operate on a 'If I own cameras A I will suddenly get loads of clients' mentality. Make your decision base don the clients you have, not the clients you wish you had.
 
Yeah, 15k on an F65...which ended up being more like 16.5k when all said and done. This was a good bargain from someone I had befriended, and they were very generous with me. Came with 1TB blue card as well. Although the median price I have seen are 18-25k

my point was that I could afford this camera which I won't likely need to upgrade for a long time, used and at a great price. This saves me the hassle of upgrading every two years. That said, I fel the same way about my FS700/O7Q. And if this whole A7s hack for 10bit recording turns out to be true, I might get one of those as well (C-camera). Haha
 
A couple of thoughts.

Given the fact that cameras tend to be replaced every 2-3 years, I think relatively low cost cameras like the Raven or FS7 make good sense.

I know that red owners tend to get fanatical about their cameras, perhaps with good reason (who knows)? I would love to see some side-by-side shots with the Dragon emulating a Raven, and an FS7. Ideally this would be done by someone who loves both, so they do a good job with both cameras. Based on the Zacuto camera shootout several years back, I’m inclined to believe that the average user couldn’t tell the difference in a blind test. However, I could be quite wrong on that. Would love to see images.
 
Just look at any Red Dragon 4k or 4.5k footage.

The best of my FS7 material doesn't touch my Red material, but for every day use the FS7 is plenty good enough for a lot of applications.
 
I agree with Scot. Love my FS7 for a lot of jobs, but IQ doesn't touch my RED camera. I brought along my Epic on a candid camera gig yesterday as I couldn't get hold of another FS7. We followed a taxi for a while and that shot on the Epic in low autumn sun through yellow leaves was pure cinematic. The FS7 just didn't look anything like it
When I can get in camera prores I can actually start using RED for jobs like these as well :-) Not just as a novelty
 
Not really a fair comparison though. One is 10bit, the other RAW.
Or am I mistaken and you were shooting RAW on the FS7?

id be curious in seeing the side by side of that foliage footage. Not just for comparison, but also because it sounds beautiful!
 
No raw on the FS7, so not a fair comparison in that respect. Unfortunately the footage is handed over to the production company, and I can't share it.
What a deal you got on the F65! I think Oblivion is one of the best looking films I saw in the last few years. The F65 can produce stellar images.
It's not for me though, I mostly need small and light packages, hence the RED route
 
Your assertion that “red is much better” is probably true. But remember, the FS7 has the same sensor as the F5, which is very similar to the F55. Many people consider these cameras to be in a similar class to Red. For people who have both cameras, it would be relatively easy to post some side-by-side comparisons. Obviously they need to be apples to apples: raw to raw, etc. And be fair. You can get lousy images out of either camera.
 
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