FS7: Red Raven and FS7

Ben Scott said:
Rage Buggy shot on Red Scarlet X at Wildtracks, Newmarket by Ben Scott, on Flickr

The Beast of Rainham Marsh film shoot - Red R3D stills by Ben Scott, on Flickr

Beast of Rainham Marsh - Still from Red R3d by Ben Scott, on Flickr

The Beast of Rainham Marsh Shoot -Day 5 by Ben Scott, on Flickr

Nadine Shah - To Be a Young Man by Ben Scott, on Flickr


One with a bit more DR

Ford GT70 - Red Scarlet by Ben Scott, on Flickr
Click to expand...

I've never EVER seen images like these out of "Sony". Anyone want to prove me wrong, please feel free. I would really like my Sony to make images like these.

In further news, the RED Raven official link is out and from what I've heard it will do 4k at up to 120fps. Native ProRes up to 2k/60fps.

$10k ready to shoot.

http://www.red.com/red-raven#packages

I'm strongly looking at selling the F55 in the new year and going RED.
 
starcentral said:
I've never EVER seen images like these out of "Sony". Anyone want to prove me wrong, please feel free. I would really like my Sony to make images like these.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I too have never gotten the color/gradation out any of my Sony projects, nor canon for that matter. Especially the tonality in the shadows
 
Last edited:
paulcurtis said:
By the time it becomes available the Ursa Mini should be shipping, so next year will be an interesting year for battle of the RAW cameras.
Click to expand...

Personally, I've never seen a Black Magic on a decent budget shoot as their many glitches are well known. Red is on shoots all the time. Ursa Mini could change this, but currently BM is for passion projects, IMO. I personally wouldn't feel confident bring one on a paid shoot, but I do like the color science a lot.

Having seen the final Raven specs, it's pretty impressive. No PL mount, but at least all new Zeiss cinema lenses and Angenieux lenses come in EF. This camera has the Weapon body along with all the benefits - Auto Black Shade, lower fan noise, better temperatures, etc... It actually feels like a "real" Red, unlike the Scarlet which had the horrendous crop factor penalties. Raven just seems like it's much less crippled than Scarlet.

I'm probably going to pre-order and have it along side my FS7 (for ENG type stuff). Good combo. Raven is $30,000 less than Weapon, that's heaps of cash. One camera for more cinematic stuff and the other camera for R&G and doc.

I kind of feel like the Raven is to the Weapon, as the FS7 is to the F55.
 
Ben Scott said:
Because specs on paper are meaningless at a certain level. The image from the Red looks nicer when you go out and shoot with it and bring it home. Remember, those images I posted haven't been graded, just tweaked in Redcine-X.

As for the rest of it, I find that stuff about Sony's colour science to be utterly meaningless when shooting Cine-EI, which is the only thing I ever do.
Click to expand...


From my own experience we are going to have to agree to disagree.
 
unless you are shooting 4K 24fps at 3:1 and have a lot of light, the raven will be the perfect crash/B cam for all red users....for HD delivery....13:1 at 120fps sounds like iPhone quality to me.....
the only good thing is that spring 2016 is a long way off, summer probably more realistic anyway and knowing RED a LOT can change by then....specs, prices, or maybe they will scrap it and start over.....
by the time this comes out we will have plenty of announcements from everybody else with lower prices and better specs.....but of course they won't be RED which is guess is still a big deciding factor for many.....
 
Paul schefz said:
unless you are shooting 4K 24fps at 3:1 and have a lot of light, the raven will be the perfect crash/B cam for all red users....for HD delivery....13:1 at 120fps sounds like iPhone quality to me.....
Click to expand...

To be fair though, the FS7 HFR quality drops off a cliff once you go past 60fps or so. 120fps on the FS7 is workable and fine in daylight, but it's terrible in noise and artifacting compared to 60fps.
 
Looks like a good camera with a few cautions. Cropped Dragon sensor and ProRes HQ 422 up to 2K, not 4. When you pair it up with the key specs of the Amira, C300 mkII and the URSA Mini along side it's price, you see where the model for this originated... and it will be a lot more than 10 grand, just like the URSA Mini is a lot more than 3 to 5 grand when you factor in EVF, memory and gak.

This also sets the stage for the pre NAB dog fight for mindshare. We've all seen this before and it always plays out differently than we first think.
 
gene_can_sing said:
To be fair though, the FS7 HFR quality drops off a cliff once you go past 60fps or so. 120fps on the FS7 is workable and fine in daylight, but it's terrible in noise and artifacting compared to 60fps.
Click to expand...
absolutely....i would never do 120fps on the FS7...
i actually can't wait to see what the 4K on the iPhone 6s looks like:)
 
Paul schefz said:
unless you are shooting 4K 24fps at 3:1 and have a lot of light, the raven will be the perfect crash/B cam for all red users....for HD delivery....13:1 at 120fps sounds like iPhone quality to me.....
the only good thing is that spring 2016 is a long way off, summer probably more realistic anyway and knowing RED a LOT can change by then....specs, prices, or maybe they will scrap it and start over.....
by the time this comes out we will have plenty of announcements from everybody else with lower prices and better specs.....but of course they won't be RED which is guess is still a big deciding factor for many.....
Click to expand...


Don't mean any insult by this, but these seem like the words of a very bitter person.


As far as 13:1 being iphone quality goes, it seems to look damn fine to me:

/93283133

Another example:
 
Last edited:
starcentral said:
20.48mm is deal breaker for me. That's a whopping 1.76x crop factor.

For that reason, "I'm out".
Click to expand...
So many small bits here and there that are no obvious at first. You see it like: "WOW!!" 4K120fps, $6K etc. but I cannot resist the impression that Raven is actually...
Admiral-Ackbar-Its-A-Trap.jpg
Or a drug that is supposed to get you into Red ecosystem, but soon will realise it's not exactly it and because you've invested in accessories you will go higher with Red. Sorry guys, I'm just sceptical. I will keep my FS7 and get Ursa Mini 4.6K as a raw machine. If a client will demand highest end I will rent Epic Dragon, Weapon or Alexa instead.
 
LeoGrey said:
Don't mean any insult by this, but these seem like the words of a very bitter person.


As far as 13:1 being iphone quality goes, it seems to look damn fine in the clip below..

Click to expand...
not bitter at all, just realistic....
4K at 120fps! 6000$ and dragon quality! i know dragon and dragon quality and anyone wants it, it is available for 30K$ brain....simple as that....everything else is hype at this point...
i was bitter when i fell for the 4K for 4K yeas ago and ended up buying scarlet MX which really made me realize that i what i was expecting was epic MX which was quite a bit more...and ended up getting that....
nofilmschool has it right when they say this is not an inexpensive camera....
also: red is the only company that will actually take you money NOW to lock you in for the next 6 months....
this won't ship before NAB and we will have other announcements then...
also: media prices seem high now for red mini mags? let's see how high they seem in 6 months when CF2 and XQD cards have come down 50%!
not bitter....jaded....
 
Last edited:
Of course it's not an inexpensive camera if you compare it to an Ursa Mini. But you should be comparing it to the the things above it, not below it. It's incredibly inexpensive if you compare it to an Alexa Mini or even a C300mk2 which are the sort of areas it will compete in.

Nobody is trying to hoodwink anyone and pretend the cost of ownership stops at buying the brain. But there is an existing market for the camera and by the sounds of it it might not be you.

The camera can be not for you, your preferred workflow or your clientbase and still be incredibly powerful and still serve an excellent purpose.

My only qualm about buying one is I probably would still want my FS7 for the lower end / faster jobs and I probably cannot justify owning both. I might wait until pre-orders have been delivered and ring every last job I can out of my FS7 before making a decision.
 
Ben Scott said:
Of course it's not an inexpensive camera if you compare it to an Ursa Mini. But you should be comparing it to the the things above it, not below it. It's incredibly inexpensive if you compare it to an Alexa Mini or even a C300mk2 which are the sort of areas it will compete in.

Nobody is trying to hoodwink anyone and pretend the cost of ownership stops at buying the brain. But there is an existing market for the camera and by the sounds of it it might not be you.

The camera can be not for you, your preferred workflow or your clientbase and still be incredibly powerful and still serve an excellent purpose.

My only qualm about buying one is I probably would still want my FS7 for the lower end / faster jobs and I probably cannot justify owning both. I might wait until pre-orders have been delivered and ring every last job I can out of my FS7 before making a decision.
Click to expand...
well considering that the 30K$ 6K dragon has not made a dent in the arri business i doubt the raven will make a big impact on it either.....
c300mkII is a completely different camera....it will need much less light, has AF, and you can shoot all day without worrying about batteries or media.....
plenty of time to shoot with your FS7.....
 
Really? Seems like it's been used for a fair few movies and TV shows. Netflix and Amazon won't approve any Arri camera for production and yet every Red camera is approved... For a company founded in 2008 it's doing pretty bloody well in my opinion. Anyway, I don't really care about that silly side of it. I care what it can do for me.

The Raven is a 1.5kg 4k 120fps dragon sensor gimbal / aerial cam that you could be more than 3 of, ready to shoot, for the price of an Alexa Mini.

But yes, I think I'll make a decision later in the year :)

The point about the C300 mk2 is that this is a camera, more expensive than a ready to shoot Raven kit that people will decide about buying or not based on this launch. That it is a different type of camera should not exclude it from the conversation if you are still allowed to use the Ursa Mini as a comparison.
 
Last edited:
gene_can_sing said:
To be fair though, the FS7 HFR quality drops off a cliff once you go past 60fps or so. 120fps on the FS7 is workable and fine in daylight, but it's terrible in noise and artifacting compared to 60fps.
Click to expand...

Ahem, cough, cough. I'm shooting 4K RAW at 100fps on my FS700...(admittedly only 6 seconds a go, but even so that's 24 seconds on playback) ;)
Or 60fps continous.

Yeah, yeah, i know....

cheers
Paul
 
Ben Scott said:
Really? Seems like it's been used for a fair few movies and TV shows. Netflix and Amazon won't approve any Arri camera for production and yet every Red camera is approved... For a company founded in 2008 it's doing pretty bloody well in my opinion. Anyway, I don't really care about that silly side of it. I care what it can do for me.

The Raven is a 1.5kg 4k 120fps dragon sensor gimbal / aerial cam that you could be more than 3 of, ready to shoot, for the price of an Alexa Mini.

But yes, I think I'll make a decision later in the year :)

The point about the C300 mk2 is that this is a camera, more expensive than a ready to shoot Raven kit that people will decide about buying or not based on this launch. That it is a different type of camera should not exclude it from the conversation if you are still allowed to use the Ursa Mini as a comparison.
Click to expand...
netflix won't allow arri because it is not 4K.....FS7 is actually netflix approved....
nobody looking at the C300 mk2 will change their mind because of this announcement. the raven can't do what the canon does....
raven does go head to head with ursa mini 4.6 and we don't know how that one will actually turn out....there is a reason this was announced now and red wants your money now.....before the ursa mini 4.6 is shipping....
because for people like you, looking for a more cinematic look, maybe a more deliberate workflow with raw and the slower more demanding post workflow the ursa mini 4.6 will be RED's biggest competitor.....that and kinefinity (just kidding)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top