FS7: Red Raven and FS7
- Thread starter Gene Sung
- Start date
Chris Langer
Well-known member
Thats pretty impressive. A lot of shoots do not need the 6k Dragon, so having this kind of power in a 4K sensor would be a hit.
Dafilman21
Carbonite Member
I would love an FS7 and a Raven, but for now a Raven and my C100 will be the combo that I will work with. Until my C100 is no longer up to snuff and when that happens I will move up to a FS5/7 used or whatever else that is out that will allow for run and gun work. This has always been my plan to keep the C100 for the HD no fuss no frills work and go with the Mini or the FS7 for 4k, Log/Raw and higher framerates. As of now I am leaning towards the Raven.
Paul schefz
Well-known member
where did yo get this?
it does 24fps at 5:1.....the biggest TBD is the data rate which will determine the highest necessary compression settings....
Nirv
Carbonite Member
I took me until I had a load of grey hairs to learn it's better for business if I upgrade something only when the clients could notice the difference and not me. I might have the FS7 for a while....
Paul schefz
Well-known member
the leaked image showed 24fps at 5:1, and raven will go up to 120fps....i don't think dragon can do 4K 120fps at 5:1....look at this from reduser.....note the TBD in the data transfer rate for the raven.....and note the huge difference between scarlet and epic....the sensors are always the same in red bodies (as long as they are in the same family, MX or dragon) but everything else gets watered down....so a body costing so much less then the most watered down version out is not likely to have better specs....
Ben Scott
Veteran
Forgive me Paul, I thought this was an outright statement aside from people dismantling the still image. Apologies if I got that wrong.
That being said, I've personally absolutely no issue with it being 6:1 or 7:1. Hell, I'm sure 10:1 at 4k 120fps would look better than anything the FS7 can do in the high frame rate arena.
I would say however, that the Epic/Scarlet was 2009 tech and their manufacturing processes, not to mention the advances in processing tech that are available, mean I wouldn't be surprised if it has a couple more tricks up its sleeve.
Actually I think the biggest thing for me would be if there's an inexpensive way to get XLR inputs on it without having to rig a A-Box or similar on it.
That being said, I've personally absolutely no issue with it being 6:1 or 7:1. Hell, I'm sure 10:1 at 4k 120fps would look better than anything the FS7 can do in the high frame rate arena.
I would say however, that the Epic/Scarlet was 2009 tech and their manufacturing processes, not to mention the advances in processing tech that are available, mean I wouldn't be surprised if it has a couple more tricks up its sleeve.
Actually I think the biggest thing for me would be if there's an inexpensive way to get XLR inputs on it without having to rig a A-Box or similar on it.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Smart man.
Paul schefz
Well-known member
no problem t all...it seems like the red fan boys are tripping over themselves right now providing 'facts" about a camera not even officially released yet...there is a lot of hot air out there.....and it gets even hotter when not everybody shares their enthusiasm
epic dragon can do 120fps 4k at 9:1
scarlet dragon can't do 120fps 4K at all....it can do 60fps at 13:1
scarlet MX can do 4K at 30fps at 8:1
scarlet dragon with side SSD and canon mount is 16.700$ right now....and it can't do 120fps at 4K....
i would expect raven 120fps at 4K to deliver HD performance at best....probably not much better then FS7 at 120fps....
Dafilman21
Carbonite Member
Lets hope we get the answer on Friday
I think the C100 and Raven is a good combo. C100 for the crap jobs and Raven for the good jobs. That's why the C300 II at $16k makes no sense because even with the C300 II, you get the exact same jobs in the lower end market (events, docs, reality, maybe a few lower budget TVCs) as you would with a C100 or FS7.
Gene, I dunno, but I think with Raven you won't get higher stuff too :/ Your best bet is to go Amira or F55. I'd love to get C300II as it's AF aid and lowlight it's a dream one op cam for fast jobs, but as like you said: nothing higher with that. But Amira... Hmm...
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Gene.
To me the C300ii is/might be the production company standard -TV prodcos.
Do not underestimate the call 'we are shooting on.. (insert camera)" and then your $10k 'investment' sits on the shelf waited to be beasted by Nab2016
Personally I would think that FS7 and 'rent for the job' would be the way?
Already Im liking the FS5!.. not because its better than my 7 but because it is more nimble and a lot of jobs call for that.
S
To me the C300ii is/might be the production company standard -TV prodcos.
Do not underestimate the call 'we are shooting on.. (insert camera)" and then your $10k 'investment' sits on the shelf waited to be beasted by Nab2016
Personally I would think that FS7 and 'rent for the job' would be the way?
Already Im liking the FS5!.. not because its better than my 7 but because it is more nimble and a lot of jobs call for that.
S
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Paul schefz
Well-known member
i put in my order for the epic to dragon upgrade as soon as possible and honestly once i got the FS7 it just opened my eyes..not that dragon is not a very capable camera, but that there is no perfect all in one solution and that you have to go down a check list of features you prefer over others....to me the let down of the epic MX was DR and base iso....and to spend that much on taking care of one of the two issues just wasn't worth it....especially when a much cheaper camera gave me better DR and much higher base iso while keeping the resolution the same....that was the FS7 to me....
the raven will not be a step up from FS7 unless you are only looking for 24fps HD "cinematic" (whatever that means) delivery....and honestly there are options out for that now....and i think the FS7 can compete with that as well with careful shooting and good post.....
having tried all available BM cameras i am cautious like everybody about the ursa 4.6 mini or not but i think it has a much better chance of being that slightly better (resolution, DR and color along with raw workflow) camera.....
i wish dragon would have been what was promised and what i ordered the first day it was announced......6K, 16.5 stops DR, 2000iso....even if it was 6K 14.5 stops, 1000iso i would be shooting with it right now.....but it is not.....and the raven for a fraction of the price is definitely not it....
Ben Scott
Veteran
I don't think the FS7 can compete with what I got out of the Scarlet-MX in those controlled cinematic environments, let alone a Dragon. It may end up not being the right investment for me but I really hope it is. Don't really want to go back to a world of compromise this time around, but I think this is going to be a very aggressive move by Red into this arena and sop hopefully they have some bases covered.
I'm finding myself sticking up for Red in here and Sony on Reduser!
I'm finding myself sticking up for Red in here and Sony on Reduser!
Paul schefz
Well-known member
it probably is the best thing that we are at a stage where it comes down to personal opinion....i never felt i got anything worthwhile out of my scarlet MX and was much more happy with my epic MX files...probably mostly because i shoot everything at higher fps and the scarlet wasn't made for that in the first place and the only way epic MX could do it (for me) was at certain compression settings....
but i actually find myself really enjoying shooting with and the files of FS7 much more then i thought and when i think about NAB 2016 i am probably most looking forward to a FS8 or F6....i hope red and BM will keep moving things forward but there is a reason the canons are doing so well....IQ so good across the board now and development is going in all directions (AF, stabilization,...).....
and getting a "cinematic look" is more about glass, production and post production.....