RED Komodo to start limited shipping soon for $6k

It doesn't matter so much what the objective standard is for measuring DR, it matters more that all the cameras use the same litmus test.
In other words, how they compare to each other, not to a theoretical standard. So if for instance Cinema5D was to use their methodology on all the cameras out there for say the last 10 years, we would know pretty much where things are at when a new camera is tested.
 
Mitch Gross said:
To be fair, most manufacturers do actually perform a physical test. They just differ on how they interpret it.

You can use an IMATEST or a DSC XYLA chart. DSC actually makes three versions of the XYLA, including one that delineates 26 stops of DR. Must be a real treat to manufacture to that tolerance!
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https://cameranordic.com/produkt/ARRI-Dynamic-Range-Test-Chart-DRTC-1

Arri make one too, though it used to be on the Arri website for anyone to buy, I can't find it right now.

JB
 
yoclay said:
It doesn't matter so much what the objective standard is for measuring DR, it matters more that all the cameras use the same litmus test.
In other words, how they compare to each other, not to a theoretical standard. So if for instance Cinema5D was to use their methodology on all the cameras out there for say the last 10 years, we would know pretty much where things are at when a new camera is tested.
Click to expand...

I think this is the best way. I have a way I like to do it som my rolling tests as I look at new cameras gives me hopefully similar results.

JB
 
John Brawley said:
I think this is the best way. I have a way I like to do it som my rolling tests as I look at new cameras gives me hopefully similar results.

JB
Click to expand...

Have you tested the Helium? Curious as to your opinion on its performance relative to Alexa as that kicked off the initial DR discussion here
 
For those who don’t mind a general glance, and don’t have time for an 80GB download, there are a few tests online.
49471938737_5e370bc40b_c.jpg

Link to comparison video:
https://vimeo.com/333772649
Helium would be a little behind the Monstro. It is said that Red doesn’t do in camera noise reduction, but Arri does, so, theoretically one could get an extra stop with post work. Ymmv. Brawley’s files above will give a far more accurate comparison.





New Pope on HBO shoots on Helium and there is a good article on how it was shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNdvNxBtWuo

Red’s promo article on the making of (so, take with a grain of salt):
https://www.red.com/the-new-pope

I did enjoy how they used the Hdrx to hold details in the windows without having to light up the room or use ND gels etc. Obviously few use HDXR on red’s but it is still a neat trick.

But it can be argued no body uses Red (or digital for that matter) quite like Fincher’s team of people. I think season 2 of ‘Mindhunters’ (netflix) was shot on Helium. The Fincher team hates magenta, i wonder if they are the reason the Helium shifts green in the shadows?
 
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James0b57 said:
For those who don’t mind a general glance, and don’t have time for an 80GB download, there are a few tests online.
49471938737_5e370bc40b_c.jpg

Link to comparison video:
https://vimeo.com/333772649
Helium would be a little behind the Monstro. It is said that Red doesn’t do in camera noise reduction, but Arri does, so, theoretically one could get an extra stop with post work. Ymmv. Brawley’s files above will give a far more accurate comparison.
Click to expand...

That's a damn good test of those 5 cameras above. Really shows their behavior. Very in keeping with my experience of grading those cameras outputs.
 
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View attachment 139129

There is something else that is here, which shows something that I have tried to explain for a long time.
There is a kind of pasty flatness to some cams captures which is virtually impossible to work with occasionally.
The capture above doesn't show it as much, but if you go to 1:43 on the link below you will see it. (look at +1 and +2 exposure for instance):
https://vimeo.com/333772649
If you look at the dimensionality and seperation of tones in the models cheeks in the line above and compare it with the bottom row, you can see it.
You will never be able to pull out the models cheekbone structure and blush in the skin in that line below.
Surprisingly, these tests show that the Mavo (not in the capture above) also does a very good job of separating tonalities, even if there is far less DR than some of the other cams.

This pastiness I see regularly from many RED, Canon and Blackmagic cams and often on the Sony DSLR's/Mirrorless series.
But the Sony Venice, Alexa and it now appears, the Mavo all have superior skin tone separation emerge as you correct them. These tests really show this well.
I have variously tried adding local contrast, etc. but if its not there on a cam, it's just not there. And it definitely affects the dimensionality of a face.
Still wondering about the Varicams, EVA1, GH5 and Fuji's...as well as the BM Pocket 6K, which in my opinion has far better separation than the BM Ursa series, though with less DR.

My conclusion is that the Mavo shares a very large pixel pitch in common with the Alexa, and that this is part of what makes a great difference for that cam.
 
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James0b57 said:
For those who don’t mind a general glance, and don’t have time for an 80GB download, there are a few tests online.
49471938737_5e370bc40b_c.jpg

Link to comparison video:
https://vimeo.com/333772649
Helium would be a little behind the Monstro. It is said that Red doesn’t do in camera noise reduction, but Arri does, so, theoretically one could get an extra stop with post work. Ymmv. Brawley’s files above will give a far more accurate comparison.




New Pope on HBO shoots on Helium and there is a good article on how it was shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNdvNxBtWuo

Red’s promo article on the making of (so, take with a grain of salt):
https://www.red.com/the-new-pope

I did enjoy how they used the Hdrx to hold details in the windows without having to light up the room or use ND gels etc. Obviously few use HDXR on red’s but it is still a neat trick.
Click to expand...

FWIW, which is nothing, I thought the New Pope was the worst looking show I've seen in a long, long time. I took an instant dislike to look, the highlights, colour reproduction and cadence. Shame.
 
yoclay said:
That's a damn good test of those 5 cameras above. Really shows their behavior. Very in keeping with my experiencing of grading those cameras outputs.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Seems to be the best group of comparison videos on the web at this time. Kind of shows a good idea of the defaults.
 
Liam Hall said:
FWIW, which is nothing, I thought the New Pope was the worst looking show I've seen in a long, long time. I took an instant dislike to look, the highlights, colour reproduction and cadence. Shame.
Click to expand...

I haven’t seen it. Have no real interest in it. So, maybe the trailer is just all the good shots? How did it compare to season 1, the Young Pope?
 
yoclay said:
View attachment 139129

There is something else that is here, which shows something that I have tried to explain for a long time.
There is a kind of pasty flatness to some cams captures which is virtually impossible to work with occasionally.
The capture above doesn't show it as much, but if you go to 1:43 on the link below you will see it. (look at +1 and +2 exposure for instance):
https://vimeo.com/333772649
If you look at the dimensionality and seperation of tones in the models cheeks in the line above and compare it with the bottom row, you can see it.
You will never be able to pull out the models cheekbone structure in that line below.
Surprisingly, these tests show that the Mavo (not in the capture above) also does a very good job of separating tonalities, even if there is far less DR than some of the other cams.

This pastiness I see regularly from many RED, Canon and Blackmagic cams and often on the Sony DSLR's/Mirrorless series.
But the Sony Venice, Alexa and Mavo all have superior skin tone separation emerge as you correct them. These tests really show this well.
I have variously tried adding local contrast, etc. but if its not there on a cam, it's just not there. And it definitely affects the dimensionality of a face.
Still wondering about the Varicams...
Click to expand...

I here you. Tonality will be the next frontier after this DR and Resolution war/race/tiering.

A buddy of mine has the Mavo LF and also shoots on the Varicam, and he prefers the Mavo. May have something to do with what you are saying.

There is something in the F35 tone curve that i like better than every other camera. Not talking dr or colour science, but the way it captures contrast or tonality and dimension. Just has one of the best i have seen. Not that it is exactly what you may be talking about, but there are things we often don’t mention when comparing cameras, like you say.
 
@yoclay, if you come across any more examples, would be interested to see.
 
morgan_moore said:
I know nothing of this camera

nD? 10+ bit?
Click to expand...

No build in ND's (due to size constraints) -- and there are a couple of mount adapters include built in NDs.

It will have 16-bit Redcode and some flavors of ProRes, though I don't know what flavors it will support.

Decent AF?
Click to expand...

Decent. Odds are not close to Canon's, but it's Red's first camera with AF, so that's to be expected.

The other big thing is the global shutter. Whether or not it will include the option of switching between global and rolling shutter is still an open question.
 
Tamerlin said:
Timing. The standard was in flux when the camera was in the physical design phase.
Click to expand...

Why go to a higher cost, higher performance media than necessary to support the camera’s data rates? Cfast 2 is much more widely available globally, cheaper, and at this point in time more reliable.
 
A future Komodo 2 might support CF Express, but the camera would have to be a bit larger to handle the extra thermal load.
 
Really? They're putting CFexpress cards in DSLRs. I don't know anything about different thermal loads
 
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