Red Epic Vs Sony PMW-F3 Vs Canon C300

Filippo Chiesa said:
Take a look to the test.
The F3 has a true Log; the C300, has not a true Log.
The C-Log seems like a gamma correction.
Because of this crucial point, the C300 4:2:2 on-board recording is not so better than the F3 4:2:0 one.
Please, take a look here: http://www.xdcam-user.com/2011/12/canon-c-log-on-the-c300-compared-to-s-log/
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While I appreciate your work here, Filippo, you really can't reference Alister's speculation as fact. The F3 certainly has a flatter log, but Canon's C-Log is in fact a true log, albeit one that is optimized for 8-bit recording. Besides this, the extra bandwidth and color sampling make the XF codec quite superior to XDCam EX (not to mention an accepted HD acquisition standard for broadcast) - and it also makes C-Log quite a bit more powerful for on-board recording vs S-Log since it's tuned for the camera's native output.

And you may think it's not much better, but the difference definitely goes a long way in the professional broadcast world!
 
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Filippo, sorry, but if the XDCamEX in the F3 behaves like it did in the EXs (and I am sure it does) it has no chance against the XF-422-codec.
8-bit is a limitation, and Cory is right, the F3 has a slightly better IQ with an external recorder. But your test is a very high-quality test and comparing the F3 and C300 against the Epic shows how far we have come.
the extra DR from the F3 is welcome, but even the new C500 is apparently only at 12-stops, because when you use these cams in controlled environmments 12 is a LOT of DR. But once you leave the controlled environment for a second unit shot or in a documentary I rather have a Canon-housing than a SONY. That´s what I tried to say.

The differences in IQ and 8-bit vs. 10-bit are really very small. So we are discussing things that IMO won´t be noticed by clients or audience. They all look great.
 
alpi69 said:
The differences in IQ and 8-bit vs. 10-bit are really very small. So we are discussing things that IMO won´t be noticed by clients or audience. They all look great.
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Normally, clients can't see the difference between a 5D MK II and an F3.
All we know that we can make terrific videos with a cheap GH2, but it's not the point.
A 10 bit camera is much more better than a 8 bit one.
I own a lot of 8 bit cameras and I can see a real difference.

P.S.
Alister also owns the C300.
I think He's one of the best camera tester.
 
Filippo Chiesa said:
Alister also owns the C300.
I think He's one of the best camera tester.
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I don't disagree, Alister is an excellent camera tester. But that still is a speculative article about C-Log written in 2011 before even the first cameras were available. It's his opinion of what C-Log is, and your opinion may match, but it's an opinion and should be referenced as such.
 
Lets throw in the new Blackmagic camera, as it appears that its design priorities are similar to those of this test. The camera appears to be capable of images at the same level as these three marvelous cameras, and I dare to say the organic look of the Black magic cam images may very well be superior to the Epic, F3 and C300. Yes I know; this last part is a matter of taste.
 
More camera TESTERS ! More camera TESTERS !
So much wasted energy and time talking about specs !

This all reminds me of when I was a kid and everyone built hotrods and muscle cars. Everybody talked about horsepower and fuel injection, but there was a friend of mine who could get into any of these cars and out drive/race all comers.
 
I did not see enough of the BM camera yet to really know what it is about. To put it straight into a fight against these 3 big calibers might be a bit early.
it is BM´s first cam, so I would expect some hick-ups with design, housing-materials, codecs, temperature-issues etc. I mean if this is coming as advertised with a near similar IQ of what the AF100 has, then that would catch all big companies including RED with their pants down and it would destroy a big junk of DSLR sales.

But in all honesty I think it is a gimmick-cam to sell Resolve and push it into the mainstream and gain marketshares. But that is all good for us :D
 
chervas said:
Lets throw in the new Blackmagic camera, as it appears that its design priorities are similar to those of this test. The camera appears to be capable of images at the same level as these three marvelous cameras, and I dare to say the organic look of the Black magic cam images may very well be superior to the Epic, F3 and C300. Yes I know; this last part is a matter of taste.
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It looks very interesting, and at that price point, I'll likely buy one - but it certainly doesn't do anything to replace my C300. The C300 is likely one of if not the most versatile camera every made, and it's worth every penny because of that. The BMD Cinema Camera is designed very specifically to be a low-cost, high quality narrative cinema tool - but I don't think it would be quite as at home as the C300 in so many shooting scenerios (documentary, lowlight, broadcast, remote location, extreme environment, etc). It's going to have shortcomings that limit it's practical applications compared to the C300.

But for what it shines in, I'm certain it could be a brilliant little device! It deserves the interest it's getting, and I certainly applaud Blackmagic Design for introducing it.
 
You guy's need to remember. ALL cameras will have better specs in the future. There will be new models, maybe from different companies (like BM), that will blow the older cameras away, and be cheaper. RED designs are several years old. Now, the new breed is coming with better specs and cheaper prices. Technology is logarithmic.
 
JohnnyD said:
You guy's need to remember. ALL cameras will have better specs in the future. There will be new models, maybe from different companies (like BM), that will blow the older cameras away, and be cheaper. RED designs are several years old. Now, the new breed is coming with better specs and cheaper prices. Technology is logarithmic.
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And your point is...?

I don't think that's something that everyone here isn't already completely aware of, but thanks for the advice!
 
cowpunk52 said:
The real beauty of the C300, is that on about 80% of my jobs so far, I haven't even needed to do that! Take camera out and shoot. If needed, plug HD-SDI cable from video village, then shoot.
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Oh man, that's go to be great. And also add in the fact that you can take it with you on a plane much easier than an F3. However, from your other post it seems that you're doing more Documentary style work. The type of shoots I'm doing a majority of the time, require a follow focus, and a second monitor for the AC at the very least.

Filippo Chiesa said:
I completely agree with you.
That's what I think.
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I forgot to thank you for doing this test. I, as well as I'm sure everyone else here, appreciates it.

Filippo Chiesa said:
Normally, clients can't see the difference between a 5D MK II and an F3.
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So unfortunately true. I can't tell you how many times I've had to fight to use my F3 over my 5D. And a few times the producers and/or directors wouldn't give, and we ended up shooting on the 5D. And that's why I say the C300 has an advantage with its Canon name. I feel that it would be much easier to convince producers who want the 5D to allow me to use the C300 vs. an F3.
 
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cowpunk52 said:
F3 arguably has the best price/specs, but shame about the on-board codec and ergonomics - makes it useless for my work. I'm glad some people have time to fiddle with frankenrigs, external recorders and batteries, & dodgy build, but I have to have something more nimble and reliable. 10 bits do me no good when I don't have all the coverage I need. I also far prefer colors from C300 vs F3 - never enjoyed that plastic Sony look. To me, the big loser here was the Epic - both the C300 and F3 easily compete with, and in a few cases I thought they outperformed, the Red offering.
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Yes. I agree totally. I am already getting calls for the C300. The glass for the F3 in PL mount was a deal breaker for me since I already owned a complete 5D package with about 10 lenses and CF cards.
 
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