Red Epic Vs Sony PMW-F3 Vs Canon C300

F

Filippo Chiesa

Well-known member
The goal of this test is to compare the latitude of these three cameras:
Red Epic, Sony PMW-F3 and Canon C300.

Red Epic recorded RAW on-board in Red Log 4K HD.
Sony PMW-F3 recorded in S-Log both in DPX on Gemini 4:4:4 10 bit and on-board.
Canon C300 recorded in Canon-Log both in DPX on Gemini 4:2:2 8 bit and on-board.

There are four tests:
1) Diffused light, from +3 stops to -5 stops.
2) Varying exposure in relation to indoor, outdoor and medium light.
3) Diffused light at 0 + spot light from 0 to +3 1/2 stops.
4) Sensors' quality test with charts.

You can download the Pro Res HQ video here: http://www.adcom.it/Testcomparativo/
The file is huge, about 22 GB, so it's divided in 31 parts.

Enjoy!
 
As the goal is latitude and not resolution and/or fine detail, is it possible to put a compressed video on Vimeo?
 
I am proud to report that I am downloading 7 / 31 of the 700mb files :)

Thank you for your generosity!

Will repay by doing a test with the next gen of sensors for you guys in 2013 / 2014, promise :)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
filippo, wahat an extensive test! thanks for that.

My 2 cents after watching thee two test (and being part on one of them):
Red needs to be exposed spot on. This package really doesn#t like to be pushed in any direction.
F3 has an amazingDR and you can easily overexpose by 2 stops . With the 4:4:4 output it is a very flexible camera.
C300 is the best bang for the buck and a great stand-alone camera. It is better not to overexpose too much and it misses 2 stops to the F3 in any case. But with the 4:2:2 onboard and the superior EVF/LCD, stabilized lenses and its size is perfect for docs, while the other two are huge packages that will give better results in controlled environments.
 
The Epic with the new firmware is much more better.
When we made this test it was not ready.
IMHO, the F3 is the best quality/price camera of the bunch.
The C300 is a great toy but overpriced for an 8 bit.
The Epic is a fantastic camera for cinema.
 
Filippo Chiesa said:
The Epic with the new firmware is much more better.
When we made this test it was not ready.
IMHO, the F3 is the best quality/price camera of the bunch.
The C300 is a great toy but overpriced for an 8 bit.
The Epic is a fantastic camera for cinema.
Click to expand...

F3 arguably has the best price/specs, but shame about the on-board codec and ergonomics - makes it useless for my work. I'm glad some people have time to fiddle with frankenrigs, external recorders and batteries, & dodgy build, but I have to have something more nimble and reliable. 10 bits do me no good when I don't have all the coverage I need. I also far prefer colors from C300 vs F3 - never enjoyed that plastic Sony look.

To me, the big loser here was the Epic - both the C300 and F3 easily compete with, and in a few cases I thought they outperformed, the Red offering.
 
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Filippo, grazie mille per la comparativa!

I love my C300, but the Sony F3's latitude on S Log mode + rocorder is a dream - so much room to be creative...and get your ass saved when you have a bad day in the office!

I agree with cowpunk, the F3 is the best camera in the market, but like him I'm not a fan of external recorders (too much 'faffing' and more things that can go wrong). I need a self contained package, and the C300 delivers in that respect. Besides, its latitude is better than anything I've ever had.

It's funny how everyone is complaining about Canon's pricing for its new products - judging Filippo's test, the Epic looks well overpriced!
 
wow F3 kicks ass in DR. Epic not so epic at all in this test. I would love to see how the new firmware fears.
 
I am on the same page as cowpunk. There is more to the package than the pure IQ (and even there you can argue about it). All these cams produce images we only dreamt of a couple of years ago for a price we didn't even dream of.
Every cam has its place and price. Nice choices for us.
 
dracalat said:
Filippo, grazie mille per la comparativa!

It's funny how everyone is complaining about Canon's pricing for its new products - judging Filippo's test, the Epic looks well overpriced!
Click to expand...

There is not much to complain about when you put the Canon in perspective with others:
REDs.....silly prices for 2012.
F3... Needs s-Log and a Gemini for several thousand euros to be able to actually take part in Filippo's test. Has inferior LCD and EVF, not exactly built for outdoor use, doesn't allow for stabilized lenses and if only with clumsy adaptors.
It actually shoots great DR even without Gemini. I just don't like the camera as such.

C300 misses around 2 stops, maybe more, maybe less. But it has built in C-Log, great EVF and LCD and is ready for outdoor use also. It comes down to your needs and your field of work. But I am sure a C300 looks better on a filmset, than an F3 on deck of a sailing-boat during a storm.

Horses for courses.
 
Hey alpi69, I completely agree with everything and that's why I bought a C300. Some believe it's overpriced and they might have a point, but the reality is that there's nothing else in the market that offers what the C300 does so Canon are right with its pricing. End of the story.

People's expectations have become really unrealistic. And all the complaining is just pathetic. Filmmaking has never been so accessible - there's a plethora of cameras, formats, looks, codecs...to suit everyone's needs and pockets, yet some keep on moaning instead of just making the most of what they have available. I just don't get it! With a GH2 (hacked) you can get images that where just unthinkable at that price point 5 years ago (they where just unthinkable altogether), but for many this is not enough. They seem to want a 4K, 4:4:4, 400mbs camera for 4 grand! Whilst I'd love that to happen, the reality is it won't. And even if it did happen, it wouldn't suddenly turn everyone into amazing filmmakers.

Sorry for the late night rant,

D.
 
alpi69 said:
F3... Needs s-Log and a Gemini for several thousand euros to be able to actually take part in Filippo's test. Has inferior LCD and EVF, not exactly built for outdoor use, doesn't allow for stabilized lenses and if only with clumsy adaptors.
It actually shoots great DR even without Gemini. I just don't like the camera as such.
Click to expand...

The F3 now comes with s-log built in, just as the C300 comes with c-log built in. So that point is moot. And as you mentioned it shoots great DR without an external recorder, so again that point is moot. There are recorders MUCH cheaper than the Gemini (Hyperdeck shuttle is $350 I believe, and the Samurai is $1600, which would still make it cheaper than the C300). Yes, they do not shoot 4:4:4, but they do shot 10bit 4:2:2, so if you're happy with 8bit 4:2:2, I'm sure you'd be just as happy with 10bit 4:2:2. I use PL lenses, so I was not expecting to have stabilized lenses, but yes that would be nice. And the Nikon adapter I have is far from "clumsy".

I have never felt limited by the F3, as I am sure none of you have felt limited by the C300. It has never taken me more than a minute to attach the Samurai to the F3 via the hot shoe, and it doesn't require nearly as much "frankenrigging" as many believe. I would still be adding rails, a second monitor, and other accessories to the C300.

In the end, both cameras are capable of great images. As all of you are saying, the F3 offers more DR and is capable of higher quality images through external recorders, and the C300 is better built, better design, more compact, and one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that it has the Canon name, which is currently much hotter with indie producers than Sony. However, responding to this test specifically, which is testing the cameras' DR, I think it is clear where one the F3's advantages is.
 
Cory Braun said:
The F3 now comes with s-log built in, just as the C300 comes with c-log built in. So that point is moot. And as you mentioned it shoots great DR without an external recorder, so again that point is moot.
Click to expand...

Yes, but without an external recorder, you will record an S-log picture with a 35mpbs 4:2:0 codec (because in post you will most likely increase contrast, or apply a LUT on the log picture). So using the S-log - to get the best DR - needs an external recorder in my view.
 
Cory Braun said:
It has never taken me more than a minute to attach the Samurai to the F3 via the hot shoe, and it doesn't require nearly as much "frankenrigging" as many believe. I would still be adding rails, a second monitor, and other accessories to the C300.
Click to expand...

The real beauty of the C300, is that on about 80% of my jobs so far, I haven't even needed to do that! Take camera out and shoot. If needed, plug HD-SDI cable from video village, then shoot.

Cory Braun said:
However, responding to this test specifically, which is testing the cameras' DR, I think it is clear where one the F3's advantages is.
Click to expand...

Agreed
 
Cory Braun said:
The F3 now comes with s-log built in, just as the C300 comes with c-log built in. So that point is moot. And as you mentioned it shoots great DR without an external recorder, so again that point is moot. There are recorders MUCH cheaper than the Gemini (Hyperdeck shuttle is $350 I believe, and the Samurai is $1600, which would still make it cheaper than the C300). Yes, they do not shoot 4:4:4, but they do shot 10bit 4:2:2, so if you're happy with 8bit 4:2:2, I'm sure you'd be just as happy with 10bit 4:2:2. I use PL lenses, so I was not expecting to have stabilized lenses, but yes that would be nice. And the Nikon adapter I have is far from "clumsy".

I have never felt limited by the F3, as I am sure none of you have felt limited by the C300. It has never taken me more than a minute to attach the Samurai to the F3 via the hot shoe, and it doesn't require nearly as much "frankenrigging" as many believe. I would still be adding rails, a second monitor, and other accessories to the C300.

In the end, both cameras are capable of great images. As all of you are saying, the F3 offers more DR and is capable of higher quality images through external recorders, and the C300 is better built, better design, more compact, and one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that it has the Canon name, which is currently much hotter with indie producers than Sony. However, responding to this test specifically, which is testing the cameras' DR, I think it is clear where one the F3's advantages is.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you.
That's what I think.
 
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