Red Epic..how much do you think?

I

Imacanon

Active member
So I love love love my Canon 5DMKII and all the lens choices, mounts etc and the price for everything is fairly cheap... considering what you can achieve with these cameras its a bargain.

Now I have the mention the Red Epic...just seen it and I was actually surprised how similar in size it was to the 5DMkII or the 1DMKIV...but Im guessing price wise its gonna be NOWHERE near the same ha.

Here is alittle clip of the Red Epic below at Cinegear.

How much do you think they will go for?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NhFRpEBleg&feature=related
 
Its only about 13x more expensive.

lol, red workflow is also such a hassle IMO. Worth it? Probably if your making a big budget film, but i wouldnt recommend it for indie witout a dedicated 1st AC, and also probably another person to manage data dumping in addition to your DP.
 
jonE5 said:
Its only about 13x more expensive.

lol, red workflow is also such a hassle IMO. Worth it? Probably if your making a big budget film, but i wouldnt recommend it for indie witout a dedicated 1st AC, and also probably another person to manage data dumping in addition to your DP.
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Really? I edit red once in a blue moon, but to me the 5D workflow, and the red workflow both can go in the same direction, edit proxies, and bring final to AFX for CC.... With red, I can then bring the final back into REDCine for a final CC
 
if it's to be near or same as a rental package, too much money.

it might actually be more expensive to use than arri alexa.
 
jonE5 said:
lol, red workflow is also such a hassle IMO. Worth it? Probably if your making a big budget film, but i wouldnt recommend it for indie witout a dedicated 1st AC, and also probably another person to manage data dumping in addition to your DP.
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It's really not that hard. I would rather (and have) one manned it with a smaller RED package then the 7D package I currently own. RED post can be stupid easy nowadays.
 
jonE5 said:
but i wouldnt recommend it for indie witout a dedicated 1st AC
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Why would you need a first AC for the Red, but not for the Canon 5D?!?! If anything, you'd need a dedicated focus puller for the 5D far more than you'd need one for the Red.
 
they ARE totally different tools, but he RED workflow is no harder to manage any longer than a DSLR workflow. Avid can edit R3D's natively, and FCP is the only post software that transcoding is still needed, which is simple to do in Red Cine X, to Apple Pro Res, and booom, you're off and editing.
 
I guess the main reason is that the camera setup was really so much more involved than what im used to, and the file sizes are huge. The DP i was working with had 4, 8GB cards, that each only held about 5 mins of footage. They were constantly swapping cards, and dumping all throughout hte shoot. It was a pretty short shoot to. On some of these shoots ill easily end up shooting about an hour and a half of footage or so, maybe more that would mean 18 cards worth of data. Im guessing it would be easier to use 16GB cards, but still.

Not saying it isnt an awesome machine, it is, but IMO its more suited for budgeted, crewed productions, than on a skeleton crew indie shoot.
 
4 gig cards, eh? they are up to 32 in release right now, I think.... 64's working, but not released if memory serves.

Just out of curiosity.... how long ago was this Jon? Methinks a lot of the "workflow sucks" comments are dated regurgitations, and not as representative of the current environment... And, also the fact that operating a RED is a different beast than a lot of people are used to, so not everyone handles the workflow in the best way for that particular tool...

Oh, and as to how much... EPIC lists at 29,000, if I am not mistaken.... 5K @ 120fps, if I'm not mistaken... RED One owners have several different upgrade options to choose from, from getting a partial credit towards the original purchase of their RED One, keeping it, and buying EPIC X and additional included modules, to getting 100% trade-in value on the original purchase price of your RED One, trading it in, and purchasing EPIC X for 29 grand, less 17.5k, plus additonal included modules, etc. For everyone else, it is 29 grand for EPIC S35 Brain for starters.
 
you can't consider something a camera, if you can't switch it on and record something on it. that would just be expensive plastic and metal.

and that's not a camera package or comparable to one.
 
anything essential to make the camera operate should always be included in the price.

you can't say camera x costs y amount of money, if it will not work until you add z amount of necessary "accessories or modules".

like if the camera will not work without a battery, then the battery would always be included in the price.
if the camera needs a specific proprietary storage device that costs a ton, then it should be included.
if you can't use a viewfinder or lcd without an "accessory", then it needs to be included.
 
Jon, what you're saying is wrong. RED takes no
more effort to shoot than a dslr in most situations. The difference is not the camera, it is definitely thr crew an their ability, experience etc tha makes the difference.

Our West Fest entry was shot RED. Camera crew consisted of myself and Geoff Reisner. My logging crew consisted of myself and Geoff Reisner.

It's no more and no less work for either system for someone who knows what they're doing.
 
anything essential to make the camera operate should always be included in the price.

you can't say camera x costs y amount of money, if it will not work until you add z amount of necessary "accessories or modules".

like if the camera will not work without a battery, then the battery would always be included in the price.
if the camera needs a specific proprietary storage device that costs a ton, then it should be included.
if you can't use a viewfinder or lcd without an "accessory", then it needs to be included.
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So, a camera that doesn't include a lens would not be considered a camera? Or, a camcorder that doesn't come with any dv tapes? and so on, and so on, and so on....

The brains all have a price... the modules all have a price... you purchase the modules you need to suit you. Nothing more, nothing less... You want a viewfinder, buy it. Or, a small lcd is all your budget will allow, buy it... need a large lcd, buy it... want to buy a 3rd party lcd instead, buy it...

Some people like options.... and, the idea that a camera is not a camera unless it includes everything you need out of the box in order to operate it... well, seems to fly in the face of camera history from the film camera all the way down to handycams.

Now, I get the idea that you don't want to feel misled, but I don't see the relevance to your argument...

Needing to purchase other equipment in order to operate a camera is not all that uncommon. Dare I say the norm in the higher end/professional market (at least going off of your rather rigid guidelines of what constitutes a camera).... and it's also something that is trickling down into the consumer price bracket with lenses for dslr's for example...

But, the modular concept of the DSMC system is hardly misleading... I mean, everyone knows that the idea is a modular approach, so no one is unknowingly ordering a camera and receiving only a brain here.... Whether that model can be put to use successfully in the camera world remains to be seen...

I don't know, I guess I'm just trying to figure out if you are actually stating that anything less than a package that has 100% of everything you need in order to power it on and record footage, is not a camera (and what the point is). Or, if you are just expressing a frustration you have about feeling misled when it comes to electronic or other purchases, in general.... In which case, I won't disagree but I use different criteria, I guess... whether or not a company is actually misleading you about what you are purchasing... (i.e. crooklyn shop telling you that your HVX200 order doesn't come with a lens)
 
if it's an interchangeable lens camera, lens are not included in the price

but if it's not a choice, then it needs to be add to the 'price of the camera'. the price of the camera needs to be the least cost operational camera.

it's not a choice that you need for example a battery. the camera will not operate without it.

it's not a choice that you can make, to say, i don't need neither the lcd or the evf, if you actually need at least one you should include the one with least cost into the least cost camera price.

if for example the audio will not work without a module, it's in the price.(even if you say you don't need it, it will add to the post cost and it needs to be added to the cost of the camera).

if the battery for example will only work for a limited time compared to other cameras, you will need to compensate for that by buying more.

what if the recording device doesn't work well some times, you need to add the cost of backups not mentioning production delay cost.

if it's not really an option it needs to be included in the price, specially when the accessories might cost a bigger percentage of the camera package.
 
if it's a "cinema" camera and doesn't come with pl mount and you had to buy that, the mount would also be included with the price.

get the least cost functional epic camera price, and say an epic camera will cost at least x amount.

if the recording device is proprietary on purpose, and it cost exponentially more than dv tapes it should be included
 
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the price of the camera needs to be the least cost operational camera.
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But Amr, that's not the way it's ever been done with professional cameras. If you buy a 2/3" shoulder-mount camera, you have to buy the lens separately, yes -- but you also have to buy the viewfinder separately, and also the battery separately, and also a tripod plate separately.

I think there just might be a disconnect here between expectations for consumer gear, and expectations for professional equipment. Yes a GH1 has everything in the box that you need to start shooting right away. But don't expect that from an HPX3000, because that's not how it works.

As far as I know, Red has been touting two prices, one is body-only and one is a "shootable configuration". Last I heard, the Scarlet 2/3" body-only was $2750 and a shootable configuration was $4750.

In professional circles, it's always been "modular" -- the battery systems, lenses, and (depending on manufacturer) viewfinders were modules that could be carried forward to the next system. So why would/should you want to buy all that stuff again, when upgrading the body? You wouldn't. So it's sold separately. That's how it's always been done, for many good reasons.
 
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