RED CAMERA Prelim. Specs

Wow, man!
Is this for real? I thought it was vaporware. So, it looks like it is going to be true.
I wonder where Panasonic will stand when this camera comes out. Just hope they come out with something similar, cause I really love Panasonic.
 
DanielG said:
I thought I found a page on the Foveon web site that talked about chips that were very near in size and pixel count to the Red sensor . . .
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The Foveon X3 Pro 10M does have a pixel count similar to that of the Red sensor. But those pixels are divided among the three (R, G, B) color layers.
 
...this camera has got to make filmmaking as easy as it's ever been!..

(the above comment is based on the fact that the Red logo looks remarkably like an "EASY" button :laugh: )
 
abeljerrod said:
...this camera has got to make filmmaking as easy as it's ever been!..
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if you really think that shooting in raw 4K 12bit is going to be easy (or cheap) in the next two or three years you'll be severly dissapointed.

zem
 
proximity said:
This is a joke.
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well, maybe it was, but the point was how everybody seems to be so terribly exited and guesses if it will be under 10'000, or maybe 15'000, that i just have to wonder how many people actually tried to manage a 4K workflow (and if they realize why over 90% of all feature finish on 2K).

persoanlly i'd prefer a 2K camera with better dynamic range, light sensivity, colours and less noise any day. give it a 35mm chip, make it record RAW at 12bit, and output 4:2:2 10bit 1080P over SDI, add a cheap, small, mag made of raid 2.5" disks (and mind the noise), and an interface for recording to external storage (2K raw is still 110MB/sec at 24fps, and 270MB/sec at 60p).

if it can be implemented easily, a full raster 4:2:2 1080p to disc recording with decent compression (say around 50MB/sec) would be cool too, as would a DVI out with zoom functions to hook up a high rez LCD for focus checks.

try to make this camera for 20'000 and you have the indie filmakers dream. specially those who know how to handle the postproduction workflow themself.
probably wont happen though, as everybody is nuts about pixel count and feature overkill without realizing the amount of extra time and money it takes to make advantage of it.

zem
 
You know, when my mind really gets to spinning on this issue, (I know, not a good thing) I begin to think it's a front for another major company like say, Canon, who is using this to facilitate their efforts in finding out what the people really want in a part of the market that they plan on expanding to, and definitely have the resources to do it. In a strange sense, these masked tactics are similar to how Panasonic created that silly little blog with that fake filmmaker, Tosch something or another to generate interest in the Panasonic HVX200. Even though we all feel empowered by rooting for the little guy, let's not forgot whose field this game is being played on.
 
Luis Caffesse said:
Or do you want to throw in your two cents, support the effort,
and hopefully have some input in the design of what could eventually be
the most revolutionary camera since we moved away from celluloid?

I'm going with the second option.
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Same here. Because I think in the end...we win indirectly if not directly. Directly if you have the money to purchase this camera.

When Red comes out...it's either going to be cheaper than the D-20, Dalso, or Genesis...making it more affordable and revolutionary then the others to us lowballers. Or it's going to cost more then the other cameras....which we can't afford. And...it pushes the other companies to improve their camera specs or else Red is going to steal a huge market share.

...when the DVX100 24p camera came out...the competitors had to double down and ante up.

Either way...goodnews
 
You know, when my mind really gets to spinning on this issue, (I know, not a good thing) I begin to think it's a front for another major company like say, Canon, who is using this to facilitate their efforts in finding out what the people really want in a part of the market that they plan on expanding to, and definitely have the resources to do it. In a strange sense, these masked tactics are similar to how Panasonic created that silly little blog with that fake filmmaker, Tosch something or another to generate interest in the Panasonic HVX200. Even though we all feel empowered by rooting for the little guy, let's not forgot whose field this game is being played on.
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Have you read Mr. Jannard's other posts in this section?

I think it's pretty obvious from his credentials and the backing of people like Barry and Jarred that he is in fact not a "front" for another company.

And as for playing on the field with Canon or anyone else. Consider the fact that he is not some independent upstart company, who is pushing its financial limits to fund their R and D. We're instead talking about an offshoot division of a very successful company with the coffers (and apparently the talent and know how) to not only realize their vision but i believe that Mr. Jannard will have the tenacity and savvy to take on the larger corps. who have been sitting high up in 'cameraland'.

Every now and then the landscape of most any scene (financial, political, cultural) needs to be shaken up and changed a bit. Maybe we're on the verge of one of those shake ups. You can't expect Canon, Sony, Panny, or whoever to always be on top. That's just not the way history works.
 
The Machinist said:
We're instead talking about an offshoot division of a very successful company...
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Really? You sure about that? Red appears to be a different company started by the same guy who founded another company. I don't think you can expect the profitability (or non-profitability) of Red to have any impact on your Oakley shares. As an Oakley shareholder would agree, I'd be curious to know how the company intends to bill Red for the use of its high end machining capabilities... Hmm. Hope this is all above board.
 
The Machinist said:
Have you read Mr. Jannard's other posts in this section?
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Yes I have, as well as his other posts in the DVi Network. I’m very excited about this most sudden development. In fact, I have been in contact with Jim Jannard and written about RED in a small article waiting to be posted online through a reputable source pending the confirmation that I haven't written about a fictional company with a fictional product - it still hasn't gone live yet...

The Machinist said:
I think it's pretty obvious from his credentials and the backing of people like Barry and Jarred that he is in fact not a "front" for another company.
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Obvious? Okay

The Machinist said:
And as for playing on the field with Canon or anyone else. Consider the fact that he is not some independent upstart company, who is pushing its financial limits to fund their R and D. We're instead talking about an offshoot division of a very successful company with the coffers (and apparently the talent and know how) to not only realize their vision but i believe that Mr. Jannard will have the tenacity and savvy to take on the larger corps. who have been sitting high up in 'cameraland'.
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Successful companies, whether they’re offshoot or primary have a tendency to work with other successful companies. Sometimes they work together publicy, other times they work together privately. How much about this company and its dealings have been made public again?

The Machinist said:
Every now and then the landscape of most any scene (financial, political, cultural) needs to be shaken up and changed a bit. Maybe we're on the verge of one of those shake ups. You can't expect Canon, Sony, Panny, or whoever to always be on top. That's just not the way history works.
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I understand the laws of nature, Machinist. I also understand the proverbial passage, don’t believe everything you see…or in this case, read.
Btw, Mr. Jannard has said that even through expressing skepticism of RED, it would still serve as a motivational force for further improvement. So, in that regard, I’m just trying to help out.
 
shizmo!! Just found this forum and read through all the messages....Mr. Jannard, you need to hire Hudson just to keep you pissed off so that the odds of success go straight up ;-)

Only the big guys will be able to afford the computer firepower to edit the raw footage - you are talking big post-budgets here. This isn't the young dude with a dream camera....There might definitely have to be "two levels" of camera, one with all the shtuff for 100k (not a problem for professional post and rental houses) and one with just the 2k and 1080p 4:2:2 output for...hmmm let's say 15g's.

I tip my hat to those with the will and $ to make it happen.

I hear some directing heavyweights want to beta test it already :-)
 
I think I'm going to change my signature to:

RED CAMERA: You don't HAVE TO shoot 4K, but you can if you want to.



Everyone keeps mentioning how 4K is too much, 4K post will be too expensive....4K is too hard to store and move around.... etc.

4K is one option.
Options are the key here.

I suppose that the thought is that if RED releases a 4K camera, they could release a 1080P camera for significantly less. And that would be true, if this were Sony or Panasonic we were talking about. BUT, in this case, the people at RED seem to have a mission to release the best camera at the lowest possible cost.

My guess is that if the camera is mass produced, and acceptance is as wide as they hope it will be, that the difference in cost between a 4K and 1080 only camera woudl be negligable.

How much of the cost of a Viper is markup?
I know that the HVX is NOT a Varicam - but it costs 1/10th of the Varicam.
Having seen some of the footage, I don't think it's only 1/10th of the quality.

My point is, it does seem possible to put out a camera for a much lower price than is being done right now. But...if people keep urging RED to put out 2 or 3 or 4 different 'levels' of camera all they are going to wind up with is another Sony, or another Panasonic. Because what will separate these different levels other than price?

My thought? F' That.

1 camera.
All options.
Cut the margin as low as you can while making a profit.

4K, 1080, 720, 480 - all in one.

Can't afford to shoot 4K? Easy... don't.
I sure as hell won't be.

But it seems that the best way to bring the price structure crashing down is to get rid of the the class structure of cameras. As soon as anyone starts talking about different camera levels, all I can think of is.... and what will RED do when they suddenly find themselves with a highend product line to protect?

No thanks.
 
zem said:
if you really think that shooting in raw 4K 12bit is going to be easy (or cheap) in the next two or three years you'll be severly dissapointed.

zem
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Zem...

Guess I forgot to include the "Sarcasm" icon :laugh: .... it was a joke regarding the RED logo looking like the "EASY Button" that all of the Staples Television ads are inundating us with.....
 
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