RED camera ( a message from the founder )

It seems to me the RED camera will take existing digital still camera sensors and adapt them to video. So lets say you take 3 11.4 megapixel still camera sensors or a new Foveon type 3 color on one sensor and create a way to ramp them up to 60fps then it would be possible. But that will be a lot of data flowing out of this thing at 60fps at 4250x2540 that would be 684 megabytes per second uncompressed or RAW format. Lets assume the RED codec can compress that 10:1 then it would only be 68.4MBytes per scond which is still 547.2 megabits per second, compare with DVCProHD highest data rate of 100 megabits per second. So you would have about 4.1 gigabytes per minute. So assuming you have a hard drive recorder that could keep up with the datarate you could get about 73 minutes of footage on a 300 gig drive at 4250 x 2540.
Also video needs to go to 16 bit per channel file formats like HDRI (High Dynamic Range Imagery) as the CGI industry is currently using. Then and only then will video be able to exceed film in dynamic range.

Wow that's pretty crazy but it would be cool.
 
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First off, I think I speak for everyone when I say I hope this camera lives up to even half of what I've heard. It will completely change the market. Best of luck.

Since Jim is lurking on these pages, I thought I'd throw in my latest frustration having just completed a couple of short shoots with HDV cameras.

It seems that a major challenge is that the camera is being positioned to have a little for everyone. Which means it's hard to figure out where to compromise features for price. This is obvious when it comes to picture quality, which is what everyone is focused on. But it also applies to more overlooked features:

1. Someone already mentioned sync sound. The current crop of prosumer cameras have inadequate inputs for sound. I'm used to recording to a separate audio recorded, but why not have professional inputs to record audio.

2. The viewfinder. I can't stress this enough. The current crop of view finders on the "prosumer" HD cameras are hopeless. I admit I'm not the best on focus, but the resolution is too high to be guessing. Again, if I'm shooting with a crew, I'm going to have an HD monitor to check focus. I'm used to that. But the camera also seems to be appealing to the HVX/Z1 market, where an on-set monitor is often (mistakenly) seen as a luxury. In that case, I need a viewfinder that I can actually use to check focus.

Again, I understand that there is always a trade-off between price and features, so this is just to add food for thought. Again, can't wait for NAB, good luck Jim.
 
Two Versions of RED (Pro & Prosumer)

Two Versions of RED (Pro & Prosumer)

You know, in the beginning, I thought this camera was aimed for the really independent filmmaker; the type of person who would purchase a DVX or HVX; but it seems this isn't really the case. It's more aimed toward the professionals, and is to compete against cameras like the F900, but be much cheaper.

But I'm thinking maybe there should be two versions of the RED camera offered; the "pro" version, and a stripped down version; only having the "essential" features of the RED camera -- it would still be superior to cameras like the HVX, but stripped down enough to be on the same price level as the HVX, or maybe even the DVX -- in other words, this stripped down version doesn't aim to be the "best of the best" or the holy grail of ALL cameras, but instead, to be the holy grail on the PROSUMER level. Sort of like the HVX, but with a large sensor-chip for DOF, and uncompressed HD to boot. That's it. Now THIS is the camera I would buy... And I think a lot of people on this board and the independent film community would also.
 
The impresssion I get is that they want it to remove the distinction between "pro" and "independent" - in terms of the hardware at any rate.
 
Gordon JL said:
But I'm thinking maybe there should be two versions of the RED camera offered; the "pro" version, and a stripped down version; only having the "essential" features of the RED camera. . . . Now THIS is the camera I would buy... And I think a lot of people on this board and the independent film community would also.
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This idea has been discussed here before. If by "stripped-down version" you mean one that has the same basic specs (eg, same form factor, same imager), then I believe that that's what Jim Jannard intends -- a modular system. But he has said that RED (and I assume that includes the base model) won't be a $4,000 camera. I'd be surprised if it comes in under $10,000 without a lens. A lens -- even an old Angenieux or Cooke 35-mm zoom -- will add $3,000 to $5,000.
 
I have been following the posts in this forum and I am very excited about the future prospects of the RED system. In addition, let it be known RED will not be the first camera to record 4k. Although the camera will offer features no other manufacture is producing at this point, RED does have future competition.

Please read about a camera in development called the Kinetta. The Kinetta camera was introduced at the NAB 2004 Digital Cinema Summit on April 18, 2004. Thus far, the camera can be hand-cranked at 1080p, record RAW format, replaceable sensors and boards, removable magazines that store RAID hard drives, etc.

Unfortunately not much has been stated about further development of the Kinetta camera. Perhaps the cost of mass producing such a camera or finding a market suitable for sales has slowed research and or production. Please visit the Kinetta website for a detailed explanation of the camera and system. I am sure we all will be looking forward to more exciting developments beyond HD.

Uriah Ocean Peterson

http://www.kinetta.com/home.php
 
Dunno if anyone's seen this, but on Think Secret they mention RED when talking about Apple's Final Cut Extreme...This is what they said..

"Sources note that Apple's Final Cut Extreme announcement will coincide with Red's upcoming 4K digital cinema camera, a revolutionary piece of equipment that is said will be priced upwards of $200,000. Pricing for Final Cut Extreme is said to be similarly up-market, approaching $10,000 a seat, and will require the latest hardware from Apple. "

$200K? Let the speculation begin...
 
All i know is that Think Secret is wrong about 90% of the time... If the camera cost 200k Jim would not be here, and I wouldnt waste my time dedicating an entire seperate forum for RED.
 
Jannard said:
The only way to enter a market is with a better product. That is exactly what we intend to do. Somebody's got to kill us to get us to quit.
Click to expand...

I don't know if we're getting rezzed up over nothing here, but you have to be inspired by a statement like that. If this cameara delivers on promises already made it will completely change the television/film industry. One camera fits all. A true 4K capture should have excellent enough picture quality to far surpass the murky 35mm prints we see at theatres now. But you could shoot your TV episodes on the same camera, and your second unit stuff, and your miniatures and green screen, and and and...

One of the things that was great about the DVX was that it de-mystified video for most people. Remember how hard it was to get your hands on a Beta Cam before that? Sony decided they were worth, what 70K, so everyone thought you had to be some kind of super highly trained unionized technician to hold one. Now the unionized technicians won't hold them because they're too heavy and, that might cause injury. Frankly they don't even make good door stops... But seriously, Red might do the same thing for cinema quality work. The big scary thing about an Arri package is the big scary price tag and the big scary insurance certificate you have to sign when you get one. It's just very intimidating.

What's really exciting about the prospect of an affordable cinema quality camera is that we'll see the cream rising to the top a lot faster. Young genuinely talented people will be less at the mercy of big budgets and studio executives and able to just get out there. Mmm. Bet Robert Rodriguez is all over this.

And since Jim seems to be listening, how about getting that fancy factory of yours to churn out a couple of nice lightweight geared heads. It's the only way to go for really smooth operation, but who wants to lug all that weight?
 
Think Secret is correct at least half the time, and the 200k number is just FUD so that they blow everyone away with the real price, and also to keep the comp off balance.

Under 20k without the lens....
 
Andrew M said:
...one detail that I think hasn't been brought up yet (and please forgive me if it has) is that this camera will be on par with the big boys of digital cinema... now all of these cameras (except for the Viiper which can utilize a portable drive) use massive hard-drives and fiber optic cables to store 4k material - now is the general concensus that we (as budget filmmakers) will only be using the 4:2:2 function of the camera because 4k is too expensive to store? - or are there non cost prohibitve solutions out there for storing 4k resoultion footage?
Click to expand...

It's weird how everyone focuses on the camera itself and largely ignores this serious problem. It's the problem faced by ANY proposed high-res digital motion-picture camera. How are you going to PORTABLY handle the massive bitrate of the data coming off this camera? Even the big-name, established players have yet to devise a good solution for lesser payloads than what we're talking about with Red. How much are those HDCam SR tape units, $60K? And they're still a big-ass outboard piece of equipment that you have to lug around.

Addressing the data volume is the biggest challenge and the most mysterious unanswered question in the entire Red discussion.
 
Its not unanswered.. in fact they already have partners that will be in the RED booth that have a solution to recording 4k.

And remember, 4k is the maximum resolution. It will go down to 2k, 1080, 720 if you want.. and most people probally will. You are not forced to shoot 4k, but its sure nice to be able to if you hafta... even if its a few years down the road. I remember 3 years ago 1080 was almost impossible to handle on a normal desktop.. now its a piece of cake. Well maybe a very big piece of cake.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but with RED you will be able to store 2K or 1080p from a 4K source.

To me, that's the sweet spot because even if you drove 4 K footage from the camera, you'd most likely want to drive it down to 2K or 1080 anyway. Why not let the camera do it.

That is exactly what is so exciting about this camera besides price (we'll find out on Monday... I'm so excited and stressed about price... what if it's 90K???!!!!).

Being able to shoot 4K, use 35mm lenses and get 2K ready to edit portable is a pure dream come true. NOONE else is doing that!

Henry
 
Monitors.....don't forget the monitors suitable for field work.....no point having the camera and nothing to "see" with.....

I COULD potentially be interested to use this camera underwater.... Underwater housing manufacturers have been given the heads up?.....external monitors for the housing needs to be very well addressed....

Wanna see this thing perform underwater....

Great expectations....
 
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