Red Brand Conformer

[im.thatoneguy]

Since nobody really wants to edit in 4k, and something tells me avid isn't going to support 2k or 4k for the budget minded indie any time soon. What is the chance we might see some sort of EDL importer so that we can conform a final 4k edit from an avid EDL?

What is going to be the process for using proxies and 4k?

The dream system would be a piece of software that came with the RED camera. You could cue up all your nice pretty 2k images, tell it to generate an sd proxy for [check box] these clips. It would then embed the timecode from the original.

Edit in Avid or Final Cut or what have you. Export EDL. Load up that same RED Conform project. Then it would go through and generate a project folder which would consist of:

A folder for each cut.. kind of. I say kind of, because it would be nice if it just reduced each clip used to the used footage (including buffer for the EDL specified transitions.) Along with an SD (full color depth) proxy.

I say each clip reduced, in order, because of color grading. If you did a 2 camera shoot and you ended up cutting together the two cameras in a conventional ABABABAB sort of process. It would be nice if you just had to cc the A and then the B, and then the EDL would be smart enough to take the color corrected footage your grading software created and do the final master in whatever codec you wanted.

Using this sort of workflow, people could keep using all the exact same software and hardware they have now, with the exception of needing about 4 TBs in space. But that space could be normal 5400rpm hard drives since all of the work would be done offline, with four renders:
1) SD edit proxy
2) Full Edit EDL cuts
3) SD Edit EDL cuts
4) Final Render


Just in case you're still confused here is an example work flow.


You shoot three cameras in 2k.

1) Copy to HD from RED storage device.
2) Load it up in the Red Conformer and export your SD proxies to your Raid.
3) Edit and export an EDL
4) Load EDL into Red Conform.
5) Red Conform generates 3 files, summarizing the footage you used in the edit.
6) These 3 files are saved to your slow but large storage server.
7) Red Conform generates 3 SD versions and saves them to your highspeed RAID. (This is an optional step since at least combustion and I think shake can generate proxies inside of the application. Then autoload the proxies)
8) You do your grading using proxies in Combustion, or Shake or some program that can use 2k/SD proxies for grading. And save out a graded 2k copy.
9) Redirect Red Conform to your Graded footage and link it to the ungraded footage.
10) The project file should still have the EDL loaded, and it knew what still needed to be done to create the final master copy, so at this point you should be able to click "Render". Choose your final codec and settings and save out a 2k Final.


Now I presume all of this could be done using a suite of software, but it would nice to at least have the option of buying for a reasonable price, this automater. With this for the cost of about 4,000 dollars for 4 terrabytes of storage and a server to hold it, you could edit a mildly compressed (10MBs per frame) short, grade it and generate a master file using the computer you have right now.


Of course... this doesn't solve the problem of getting it off of the camera.

 

[Jarred Land]

great post Gavin.

Im sure as 4k becomes integrated more into the post production pipeline conforming will be commonplace, as it exists right now you can of course do just that.. but the colortiming info placed into the EDL is a very good idea.. not sure if anyone is doing that as of yet. We are just seeing support from Apple for 2k, so im sure it will come... and apple seems to be good at making things easy.

 

[dalen7]

forget Avid, as you said it probably will be an expensive solution...im bettn on apple (they already have a 2k solution even....heheh)

peace

dalen

 

[Jarred Land]

yeah.. everyone is betting on apple its pretty crazy. At our last bootcamp out of 25 people only 1 person was on PC still.. and they admited to being Bi.

 

[nalu]

yes please

yes please

We need this - when I say we I'm talking about all small independent producers such as myself, who are planning the purchase of RED but stretching finances considerably to make the purchase and have a post system capable of making it worth while!

The workflow suggested would make things a lot easier and affordable.

Something like the XDCAM system of low res proxies would be a great way.
Shoot 2K, edit offline proxies on your FCP laptop then walk into someelse's suped up FCP suite for online.

 

[im.thatoneguy]

great post Gavin.

but the colortiming info placed into the EDL is a very good idea.. not sure if anyone is doing that as of yet.

Trust me they aren't. I talked to the local Discreet Lustre and Davinci artist about workflow and data management. He said the general process was for the smoke editor to select each clip and then export them individually, there was no automation in the system at all, and was next to impossible to make small changes later to the edit, unless you did it inside of lustre.

I would love to have that part of the conformer right now for DV. Export an EDL, and generate a block of footage ready to be graded. Reload graded footage and the EDL kicks out a final copy. That's the sort of thing that keeps me up at night not a 4k sensor.

... maybe I'll go harass a programmer friend for a few days...

 

[Jarred Land]

mm i wonder if in final cut if you did a 2k proxy edit, and just swapped out the video file with the 4k one by simply swapping the bins out if it would be an easy solution.... sounds too simple but I have done it tons of times wth Vegas.

 

[Stephen W]

For this to work in FCP, Apple would have to sort out that Media Manager, otherwise people would be scared to use it!

Hmm, yes, I'll just re-connect all my footage... DOH!

 

[im.thatoneguy]

I'm sorry this is going to be a bizzare sorta double posting, but I'm going to repost what I said in a Red Codec thread since it applies here as well.

If Graeme or one of the RED team could write a program as simple as this even if it was exclusively for the RED codec, I think even somebody with little to no programming experience could write a front end batch file creator to do everything my "RED Conformer" does. Well everything short of dissolves and wipes (Maybe that's something you could add to the redcodec.exe). The dream would be to also be able to do crops and cuts without recompressing, if the red codec is flexible enough to be able to shed frames much like a targa sequence.

"redcodec.exe \ \network\clip1.red -delete f 23536-35332 -fileout \\network\cut_up.red"
"redcodec.exe \\ \network\Big.red -resize gaussian -h 640 -w 480 -fileout \\network\small.red"


If you wrote a program for us that was that simple to write batch files for with even more extensive API support, I could only imagine the creativity and flexibility of the third party tools created by normal mortals and artists like ourselves.