Red balance issues

T

the doc

Well-known member
Whenever I take pics or video I am seeing a LOT of red in the shots. if I take a pic of my babies face any little spots / marks look really pronounced and fiery.

Is this primarily a white balance issue... or a colour issue? I can fix it by manually reducing the white balance... or by going into the colour mode and changing the saturation there.

If it is from the AWB - why has the camera been shipped with a white balance algorithm that so consistently makes things too warm? If it is the colour balance then the same question applies. it would be nice to rely on the auto settings SOMETIMES - but at the moment I feel i have to do everything in manual mode.

At least with pics I can fix any red issues with GIMP easy enough... but on video I use power director 9 - it seems to have very basic colour balance tools for post processing.
 
Haven't seen this issue. Sounds sorta particular to your camera. Did you try doing a reset in cam and then checking the white balance. They could possibly be an issue if it persists. I would follow up with the dealer you purchased from if you cant get the issue to go away.
 
the doc said:
Whenever I take pics or video I am seeing a LOT of red in the shots. if I take a pic of my babies face any little spots / marks look really pronounced and fiery.
Click to expand...

I wasn't taking a 'baby's face', but a fire red typewriter, and had red color bleed/bloom. I believe other have indicated this is a 'problem'. So, one may be able to modify it by some form of selective desaturation of 'brilliant' red... You'd have to experiment to see
how you could deemphasize the 'bloom red', and not give your 'pink' baby an ash near death look...

Here's a URL for my example:
(look at the 'bloom' mixed "Corona" logo, vs. the clean black and near white letters on the keys near the logo.)

picture.php
 
i noticed the camera really loved the red too in particular red objects not necessarily tone when i first shot something. switching to smooth or nostalgic and pulling down saturation and contrast and adjusting WB has helped me.
 
I've created a preset plugin in Sony Vegas to correct this problem. It grades the video almost identical to the Basic setting in Magic Bullet Looks, but without the slow render. I apply it to most of my GH1 footage as a first correction in the chain.
 
rambooc1 said:
I've created a preset plugin in Sony Vegas to correct this problem. It grades the video almost identical to the Basic setting in Magic Bullet Looks, but without the slow render. I apply it to most of my GH1 footage as a first correction in the chain.
Click to expand...

Ah... good to hear others have the same issue.... and your plugin idea sounds ideal.... doesn't help me with power director though!
 
Like Mr Fanny said, play around with the different modes in camera and you can minimize red dominance in some situations.
 
OK... here is an example pic... I have a lot of pics very similar. This is on auto settings.

original.jpg


And this is after I use the saturation tool in gimp with red at about minus 15.

retouchhueredminus15.jpg


So - any ideas? I can nicely adjust things in the creative colour mode on the dial... but none of those settings can be applied to film or other pic modes right??

I could try changing saturation in the film modes (like smooth / nostalgia etc) would that help? But that won't help my still pics right?
 
it will apply to stills just as much as the logic that black and white will also apply to stills. they are just colour profiles. a quick play on your end will confirm it =)
 
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Nice baby Doc....... about to be a grandfather for the first time in 2 weeks and will be in NY. Not popular at home, thanks for reminding me...haha

Rambo
 
MR Fanny said:
it will apply to stills just as much as the logic that black and white will also apply to stills. they are just colour profiles. a quick play on your end will confirm it =)
Click to expand...

Hmmmm... sounds good - but in IA mode you can only choose between standard and standard B+W.

So... just cant use that mode?

Still might help with PAS settings - will go have a trial.
 
The typewriter shot is a good example. You've got dark areas + the typewriter is very close to just pure red. The GH1 red channel is more sensitive/powerful than the other channels, it's one of the reasons some recommend using an IR cut filter. I personally use the Tiffen T1 and it does help a bit with cleaning up the red channel and making it less overpowering - it's a fairly expensive filter but I am glad I have it and you can get truer blacks with it.
 
OK guys... test time!

S mode, AWB. Smooth -2,-2,0,0 (normal saturation.)

satnorm.jpg


S mode, AWB, -2,-2,-2,0 (-2 saturation)

smilesat-2.jpg


Damn! :(

The reduced sat pic actually looks slightly worse! (No - I didn't get them back to front.)

Hey this isn't a controlled lab test - but I am disappointed nonetheless. Also confused as to why camera companies don't sort this out pre production - I hear that the Canons have similar red balance issues?

Grrr - any other ideas that don't involve buying this expensive IR filter? I aint making feature films... just want my kid to have a normal skin colour! :)

Just keep adjusting white balance manually? Bit of a pain in the butt. :(
 
Do a manual white balance on a white card or 18% gray reference card. See what that comes up with. If you are shooting under tungsten light try a 1/4 ctb correction filter to remove some red.
 
Razz16mm said:
Do a manual white balance on a white card or 18% gray reference card. See what that comes up with. If you are shooting under tungsten light try a 1/4 ctb correction filter to remove some red.
Click to expand...

I can already fix the white balance just using the manual adjust using the LCD... usually comes out ok - but I have to tend towards the washed out look.

What is a 1/4 CTB correction filter?
 
the doc said:
I can already fix the white balance just using the manual adjust using the LCD... usually comes out ok - but I have to tend towards the washed out look.

What is a 1/4 CTB correction filter?
Click to expand...
CTB is Color Temperature Blue. It converts tungsten light of 3200K to more of a daylight color. 1/4 means it is 1/4 the strength of a full CTB filter.
 
Ah OK... well ideally I would really love to fix this in camera without adding more hardware.

The saturation thing is crap. So... no solution?

Assuming this... I know some of you guys will be great stills photogs as well as videographers.

Is colour correction in GIMP best done the way I described? (Going into hue saturation and changing stuff there.) I see there is a colour balance tool but I can't seem to get good results with it.
 
the doc said:
Hmmmm... sounds good - but in IA mode you can only choose between standard and standard B+W.

So... just cant use that mode?

Still might help with PAS settings - will go have a trial.
Click to expand...

Never noticed that as I turn all that assist stuff off.

I do alot of post work on my chosen images so as long as I get good composition and subject in the moment I am happy. Not ninja enough yet to be able to dial correct settings first go. I am always switching from video to photo that my pics are usually in custom smooth or nostalgic settings with min saturation to grade later.

That IR cut filter sounds interesting though I agree an internal solution would be best.
 
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OK guys - I think i might have found a solution to this??? No doubt someone will have tried this before - but I was just playing around with settings and found something interesting.

1) Set AWB.
2) press down on the menu keys.
3) You go to a 'fine details' white balance graph.
4) I set mine 2 clicks to the right, 2 clicks up.
5) Press set.

Now - as far as i can see - this tones down the saturation a bit - in all camera modes... and your settings are saved when you turn the camera off. You can still use your other white balance settings as usual and they won't be affected.... but if you just want to use AWB you can now shoot without overpowered red!

So... is this smart or have i just done something wrong? I need some of you experts to tell me if this sounds good - and indeed if I should use different settings on this screen (I just experimented a little with them.)

Cheers! And hope this helps someone.

ps - would still love to hear from any GIMP experts out there about my above question too.
 
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