Red and Apple team up?

waltind said:
Check the link above according to ther roumor the camera is around 200K ...
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Yes...but that is exactly it. A rumor. Jim has mentioned that the price will be as surprising as the features. He also mentioned that if only a very small percentage of people could afford it, then he feels he has failed. 200k? I doubt it.
 
Slimothy said:
Yes...but that is exactly it. A rumor.
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And I hope and pray that it is WAY off base, as well as the part of the roumor that says that FCP Extreme will be 10k.

At 200k and 10k that is out of my league ...

But if it came with a can opener as Coffee asked, I might consider it at that price. :thumbsup:

If it does come out at or around 10k for the camera, I would be on board and scounge up the cash to get it.
 
myfriendimage said:
I think the red camera is a little over zelous, aside from being scepticle about this camera, I think its too much to soon.
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I disagree. I understand while certain technologies can outpace others - its relatively not as much of an issue of "too much too soon" as it is breaking a trend of bottlenecking technology. A lot of times companies across the board stateside bottleneck technology, limiting, and crippling products to milk every integral step of technological advancement - when times there are leaps and bounds to be made. Every now and again, technologically we have to make leaps here and there. If someone said at the first talkie film in the 1920s - "that's too much too soon - no one has the hardware to play audio with video"...well it'd delay the inevitable progress towards advancing not only the technology - but the art.

Now granted you're right, I can't imagine a single quad G5 being able to process/ render in any reasonable time 2k or 4k images. I am sure of one thing - it definitely get companies off their laurels and make them start (1) being more forthcoming with technological advances instead of gradually releasing or (2) start trying harder to advance technology and push the envelop to be able to meet the demands of such products. Its a possibility that there could be a brick wall in the processing abilities of systems once this camera is out. But honestly, granted this camera isn't hitting shelves today I'd rather see this camer be tailored towards future developments, rather than current limitations in CPU power, which are outdated every year anyway. Limiting a camera that is probably still in R&D phases to fit the technology of today may end up hindering the possibilities of that camera and the "next step".

Either way, it means maybe just maybe technology will start to embrace a potential evolution - or you might have to daisychain a farm of a couple of G5's...but its still probably gonna come out cheaper for production houses than the technology that exist now such as Vipers and all that business. Which then translates to lower cost for you - and while not necessarily opening the floodgates for all indies - definitely bringing technology that allows people to push the envelop of art, that much closer to all of us.
 
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Actually there is a notable slice of film makers who do think that talkies caught on too soon. That it slowed down the advancement of filmmaking and visual storytelling. :)
 
im.thatoneguy said:
Actually there is a notable slice of film makers who do think that talkies caught on too soon. That it slowed down the advancement of filmmaking and visual storytelling. :)
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i can see the importance of visual storytelling as a medium of its own, and the sort of pressures it put on people to include audio. we can think of tons of movie that have horrible dialog coming blasting through your ears in THX. And likewise I get sick of crappy CG...but then again you wade through the crap and you get something every once in a while like "Lord of the Rings" that is as technological as it is artful. Technology can turn a public so at awe with new technology to turn away from equally magnificent, albeit not as technologically advanced works. People sometiems do get too wrapped up in technology yes, and we're probably gonna see people make crap on the red as well.

But yea, we've seen crap for sometime now. And regardless whether they're working on a GL2 or a Viper...a person might still make some crap. The technology isn't going to make the crap appear or disappear - though it may make it more visually appealing.

I mean one of the first things that comes to mind, yea it would be sad is say a sd dv production like similo - was basically ignored because it simply wasn't 2k,4k and whatnot. It was a great usage of the technology available. However, you have an equally hard time convincing me that the creator of similo if having the option wouldn't have went "red" in the first place. And that's my point, perhaps this camera will split the atom amongst indies...or maybe it'll add a whole new equation to the mix and give indies a whole new molecule to play with. It could create a divide between the haves and have nots amongst indies... and it could create an obsession with technology above art. But then again that's kinda already happening anyway with the advent of XL H1s and even to some degree the DVX200, every one can't afford those, and everyone is not gonna use the technological advances of these products in the most artful way. This very moment you have people damning use of the phrase "film" for anything shot on video. Even when the DVX hit the scene some people at least initially were thinking the DVX w/ 24p and such was the cure all in the stead of good acting, lighting and other fundamentals. And as before we saw people crawing at the faults of 24p...yet now we've seen some beautiful marriages of technology and art. And here we are today on a forum dedicated solely to it.

So I'm just saying granted the flexibility of "red" for a range of uses, and after people have the inevitable gaffaws of honeymooning a new technology - people will come back to earth and realize the worth of using that technology, not for technology's sake - but incorporating it as one tool to further artful expression.
 
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The only thing I worry about is an Alienware situation. I bought an Area 51m laptop when it first came out. It was one of the first laptops to support upgradeable graphics. It's a great laptop but the twist is tha Alienware never made a new graphics chip using that system and they killed ALL support for the older models when they replaced it with the PCI Express mobile technology that they currently use to great effect. What if RED does the same thing with this modularity system? What if a newer technology that is cheaper and faster comes out the next day and it is totally incompatible with the previous generation? That's my only fear, but if I can get 1080p at least, I'd be happy.
 
If anything, RED will force the hand of other manufactures like Panny, Sony, JVC, etc. to stop rehashing the same cameras over and over (not to mention charging unrealistic prices) and step up to the plate. I mean how long have video cameras been out and we are still playing the 3 CCD 1/3, 1/2 and 2/3 inch chip game.

The resolution might be overkill for most and lets be realistic, even in 5 to 10 years from now what do you think the resolution for most HD (or HD+) broadcasts will be? 4K? Doubtful. So yes it will have a film output market, a TV episodic market, a Independent market and maybe an event market. However, which of these groups do you think the bulk of the sales will come from?

I'm hoping this camera will at least bring us 35mm sized censors at current camera prices, after all these already exist in the Canon Digital SLR's. Think about it - right now a Canon 5D SLR (3K price) can capture a very good 4K image at 3fps to digital media from a Super 35mm sized film sensor. Cut the Rez down to 1080 maybe gain a few fps, tweak the chips some more and hmm, probably not to far off from a 24fps chip.

My point is that RED should have a second camera in their pocket that doesn't provide all this 4.4.4 and 4K business and just focus on features that will provide for most markets (35mm sensor giving us true DOF at last, 4.2.2 at min, variable frame rate recording, Direct to Disk recording, etc.). Unless they would rather sell 5 100K cameras isntead of 1000 10K cameras.
 
The sooner the playing field is leveled, the sooner content and technical ability will become the only thing worth discussing. If you look at desktop publishing you'll see that through the early 90's, they experienced what video and film is going through now. Today, in the design world, EVERYONE has access to the same tools a giant magazine publisher has and the market is FLOODED with graphic design artists. Since the playing field is now level, it's no matter a question of who has the tools. Only the good designers get work.

I've been waiting for the day that the tools used in million dollar productions are accessible to those on a budget, and the mental hang ups people have over depending on technology to make good art will be over. The camera will no longer be a scape goat for bad films, only the creators themselves will be to blame.
 
The idea that the cam is modular, I have a gut feeling, means that it will consists of components that can be changed inside as well as outside. As for 4k 2k, bring it on!
 
I have not understood a thing, but Jim Jannard has made some contract with wordwide resellers? This company it's worldwide company that will have support as a traditional company? Or it's another Kinetta or Drake camera made by expert people without any worldwide business/rules?
Have you already made some contracts wordwide, with official support in Italy, Spain, Japan, as a professional company? To make a thing that works you need various subdivision, or we'll have another Drake/Kinetta camera, great enginering but without money to produce a number of cameras worldwide.
I can make a great invention, but if I don't have various subdivision, that ev'ry people on the earth knows what RED camera is, and give support to customers as Sony or Panasonic does for example, this camera won't be real.
Or it will be real but it needs 10 years to make worldwide subdivision...and resellers.
I don't mind about price, camera and others.
The only question we can ask to Jim Jannard is:
"Have you worldwide contracts (we don't want know who are they) to sell this camera for example in Italy, with official support/warranty etc... or maybe this camera it's made in your home?"
Is this thing "real" only for american people, Jim?
And you know Jim that all prototypes or first machines have an electronical mortality rate? (I dunno how it says in english, but ev'ry machine has components that without years of testing we dunno if they stop to work after few days! You need some serious beta testing made by numerous people worldwide!)
After some years you can say this thing work and now let's start to make some contracts...but hey you must say that this camera will ship in 2011 or somethin'!
Be realistic!
 
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I have not understood a thing, but Jim Jannard has made some contract with wordwide resellers?
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Think about the market penitration that Oakley has.. RED wont have a problem getting to where they need to get to.


This company it's worldwide company that will have support as a traditional company? Or it's another Kinetta or Drake camera made by expert people without any worldwide business/rules?
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again.. RED isnt just some random company with no resources.. This company arguably has one of the best business practice and rules out there.
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trust me, in about 10 days everyone in this industry will know what RED is.


"Have you worldwide contracs (we don't want know who are they) to sell this camera for example in Italy, with support etc... or maybe this camera it's made in your home?"
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im sure he will answer this.. but Jim has been buying cameras for over 20 years.. lots of cameras. lots and lots and lots of cameras. Every single camera retailer I have come across knows Jim ("oh yeah, i know Jim, he bought an "x" camera from me back when"). he has strong relationships already with alot of powerful people.

And im pretty sure every single retailer out there will be hunting Red down to sell this thing.
 
Jarred Land said:
Every single camera retailer I have come across knows Jim ("oh yeah, i know Jim, he bought an "x" camera from me back when"). he has strong relationships already with alot of powerful people.
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Hope you are right Jarred! In Italy we have Berlusconi, he's mysterious man because he has 3 television, a publishing house, and own football team, and various other affairs! Hope that Jannard is like Berlusconi, it's the only way to make this thing real....
I'd prefer Jim Jannard to Berlusconi LOL...because Jannard likes Red color...! LOL! (This gag only few people could understand...)
Did you have in Usa any associations called "P2" or "Freemason Lodge" ? (This gag only few italians people could understand...)
Jannard needs that kind of help, Jarred!

Maybe Jannard knows Berlusconi...LOL!
 
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yeah every country has them.. UK has Branson, you got Berlusconi, and we got Jannard.. alot of that genius goes wasted, but some people come around and step up and make a change.
 
HowdyDoo said:
The sooner the playing field is leveled, the sooner content and technical ability will become the only thing worth discussing. If you look at desktop publishing you'll see that through the early 90's, they experienced what video and film is going through now.
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I find this metaphor flawed. The only thing I've ever felt was holding me back was finding:

- An amazing screenplay
- A genius DP
- An inspiration editor
- A breakout cast
- An excellent composer
- Money to fund all of the above.

Camera.... fun hobby on the side, but the least of my filmmaking concerns.

Film will never become like desktop publishing, unless it can move into the virtual world. The act of filmmaking isn't a solitary activity. It requires, people, time and space. Even if you had a an Arri 435 and unlimited stock right now, you couldn't make a great looking film. Who's going to stand in front of the camera? Are you going to split screen the film and act against yourself? The quantity of indie films being released right now that were filmed on the DVX is a testament to the openess of this industry.

These are all the problems that are holding us back. And I wouldn't have it any other way. It's the collaboration that attracts me to film making. The Red will check off one of hundreds of little boxes that need to be right for a great film.

Now if someone could create a little blue box that gave me unlimited time to prep, light and shoot. Gave me actors and screenplays. I could see a revolution in the industry.
 
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im.thatoneguy said:
- An amazing screenplay
- A genius DP
- An inspiration editor
- A breakout cast
- An excellent composer
- Money to fund all of the above.
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Of course it's great to have all these things, but a shame to waste them on a crummy-little DVX/HVX whatever - a good quality picture (in the "moving picture" medium) is to me one of the most important things.
 
yeah.. i like the split screen thing to act against myself idea. Im going to hafta investigate that.
 
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