Recording Concert (board feed)

scorsesefan

scorsesefan

Veteran
I'm mostly a DOP and not an audio guy. I'm filming a concert soon and the client wants me to plug into the board to capture the sound.

Can anyone give me any tips? I just sold my F8 so now I need to either buy or rent a recorder. I was thinking of a Zoom H5...

BTW I've been hired directly by the venue, so it appears as if I have full access/cooperation of their sound guy.

Thanks
 
Will there be a soundcheck?

If you can't nurse the audio recorder because you'll be pre-occupied with cameras, then it becomes even more important to set decent levels during a soundcheck. Everything will go much better if the sound guy is nice and wants to be helpful. I've experienced the entire range from super helpful to downright nasty.

If using a handheld recorder with mics, I'd also simultaneously record the room sound if the recorder allows it multitracked. Can be useful in some cases to mix in, very low.
 
I end to us my ex1 set on sticks - a sound recorder may not be ideal.

Mainly it has not worked well - often it seems like the clip the signal they send.. Having founded great at sound check!

I would fill your quote with caveats.

I quoted on a similar job today and option one for the client was to add a sounde.

Monitoring is extremely challenging if a full rock performance is in progress unless with my regular cans
 
Make sure you also record the sound using microphones... I'm yet to hear a stereo-feed directly from the board that sounds good... this is especially true for smaller venues where the direct sound of drums and guitar amps on stage is loud enough to be heard in the room.
 
What are you filming with? If it is a long concert I would rather have the line level feed going to a camera so the sync stays in place without the chance of drift. It can be a pain but taping down an XLR cable is the best way to ensure good direct sound.
 
ozmorphasis said:
Will there be a soundcheck?

If you can't nurse the audio recorder because you'll be pre-occupied with cameras, then it becomes even more important to set decent levels during a soundcheck. Everything will go much better if the sound guy is nice and wants to be helpful. I've experienced the entire range from super helpful to downright nasty.

If using a handheld recorder with mics, I'd also simultaneously record the room sound if the recorder allows it multitracked. Can be useful in some cases to mix in, very low.
Click to expand...

I'll be busy with the camera. I'm assuming there will be a sound check and that the sound guy will be helpful because I believe we're working for the same client... Yes, I was thinking of using a handheld recorder with onboard mics. Where would you recommend placing it so that I can also plug into the board and stay out of the way?

dmitrizigany said:
Make sure you also record the sound using microphones... I'm yet to hear a stereo-feed directly from the board that sounds good... this is especially true for smaller venues where the direct sound of drums and guitar amps on stage is loud enough to be heard in the room.
Click to expand...

Practically speaking the only mic I'll probably be able to record to is the mic on the recorder (i.e. Zoom H5 or similar). I will also record from my camera (AT 875R) but I doubt that will be of much use besides a scratch track.

Bassman2003 said:
What are you filming with? If it is a long concert I would rather have the line level feed going to a camera so the sync stays in place without the chance of drift. It can be a pain but taping down an XLR cable is the best way to ensure good direct sound.
Click to expand...

C100. That would be optimal, but I have a feeling I may have to move around a lot :(
 
scorsesefan said:
I'll be busy with the camera. I'm assuming there will be a sound check and that the sound guy will be helpful because I believe we're working for the same client... Yes, I was thinking of using a handheld recorder with onboard mics. Where would you recommend placing it so that I can also plug into the board and stay out of the way?
Click to expand...

You're not gonna have much in the way of choices when it comes to placement of the recorder if it needs to also be near the sound board. I would at least try to get it up off a desks and such and have a bit of room/air around it, while facing toward the action. Also, if possible, don't have it near a gaggle of people. Someone standing right next to it screaming "SLAYER" ( I actually have no idea what kind of concert this is) will ruin that source real quick.

It's tricky, and not an ideal situation. You have to do your best while making sure the client understands that doing this properly requires someone being hired specifically to capture audio and mix it, the same way that a camera crew would capture video with proper high end gear and the edit/color grade it.

Are you using just one video camera as well? If so, then the entire venture sounds like archive capture at best, so that should take some pressure off.
 
With the Zoom F8 (or similar recorder) you can record the sound board feed at two different levels simultaneously to protect one of the tracks from blowing out.
 
The problem of blowing out often comes from the board - I've been fed at least two clipped signals my audio was completely flat at well below the max of the camera.
Maybe someone can explain this?
 
Well I guess the next question would be - how important or is there a budget for doing the audio properly? Sounds like you will be moving around and capturing parts of the performance to create an edited down version, not an archive. If your audio is outside of the camera, will let the camera record non stop throughout the entire show to keep sync or will you start and stop the video? You will have a lot of syncing in post if you start and stop the video. Maybe Plural Eyes is on your hard drive?

Your best bet is to get ahold of a 4 track recorder. Two mics going into the recorder for ambient sound and a single line in from the board. Put the mics on a stand with good placement in the room. Or, if lower budget a two track recorder, one mic and one line in.

@Morgan - the situation of getting an overmodulated feed form the board is a mess and becoming more frequent in my experience. Modern mixing boards are cheaping out with the connectors and basically not giving as many proper outputs as they used to. This situation often happens when all of the tracks are sent to an output like an AUX send and when combined they add up to overblowing the signal. Why this happens internally I do not exactly know. All I know is that you have to check it a lot before the show!! I have gone to using the RCA tape outs or the headphone jack along with a stereo RCA to mono XLR adapter as these feeds while not being +4, are always an even level. I need to change the camera to mic in since the feed is weak, but it is better then an in usable track.

The best output imho is a proper "mono out" jack from the board or if a competent sound person can create a group and the group actually has an XLR output. Boards feeds used to be easy. Now they are a mine field.
 
scorsesefan said:
I'm mostly a DOP and not an audio guy. I'm filming a concert soon and the client wants me to plug into the board to capture the sound.

Can anyone give me any tips? I just sold my F8 so now I need to either buy or rent a recorder. I was thinking of a Zoom H5...

BTW I've been hired directly by the venue, so it appears as if I have full access/cooperation of their sound guy.

Thanks
Click to expand...

My tip is make sure you have someone there to monitor the levels.

I was hired to shoot a multi cam concert and the guy in the sound booth told me he has his job to do and can't monitor levels on an external recorder. We set it using some levels at the beginning with him, but they changed at some point and the entire 3 hour audio recording was useless.

You have to have someone there to monitor or, or you tell the client that you refuse to include sound as part of your job. It's that simple. I actually told my client and put it in writing that I could not be responsible for audio if they did not budget for it.

Luckily there was another guy there that day recording sound who was nice enough to give me the files. I would have royally screwed up this job otherwise.

And do record from the board, not using mics. Any Zoom H recorder will do.
 
Thanks, guys. I'm actually editing together a two minute piece from several hours of footage, so I will being starting and stopping the camera and using Plural Eyes to sync... I agree with you Dennis. I've asked the client to budget for a full time audio guy...
 
Yes or you will have a decision to make! If you still have to do it alone just make sure the board feed is Post Fader. This means that any changes that the sound person makes are reflected in your feed. So if something is too loud and they pull it down in the house it comes down in your feed. So your fortunes are tied to how the house sounds. Just set the record levels from the board to a safe number like -12 DbFS and you should be fine.
 
Bassman2003 said:
@Morgan - the situation of getting an overmodulated feed form the board is a mess and becoming more frequent in my experience. .
Click to expand...

These were 'proper' events - not shows in the pub - Ive had problems monitoring because the SPL from the performance/sound check completely overran my cans exclusion ('normal sony eng cans') at that point all I could do was look at the levels to peaking (or lack of) on the camera.

--

Synch.

People might be interested in my 'setup'

As I said I do not use an audio recorder but my sony EX1. Generally shooting a locked wide from the desk (I have a scaff rig to enable its use without a tripod which eats floorspace in the 'control tower')

This I leave the EX1 to roll for the entire performance, often powered from the mains supply.

Now I used a stills flashgun for synch!

Not wanting to roll the fs7 in the pit for the full session and wanting to film the crowd in slomo etc I was going to cut the FS7.

Flashing the strobe at the beginning of an FS7 take also showed on the EX1 greatly aiding synch.

--

Overall I feel that the client who wants to proceed without a dedicated soundie both to interface with the desk and also make additional ambient recordings is a client that needs dealing with with the utmost care. When they skimp on budget you end with egg on your face.
 
Most board feeds are line level via XLRs or 1/4" TRS. Even if you hire a sound person, that doesn't mean the house engineer/mixer will cooperate and give you a 'recording' mix or have the facilities to do so. i.e.: pre/post fader sends and/or a matrix. Typically, a 'house mix' is heavy on vocals and lacks electric guitars and such. If the board has direct outputs, you could multi-track record it and mix it later or a have your sound person mix it on-the-fly from the direct outs or sub-masters (stems). ALWAYS have room mics for applause/audience response and the 'live' ambient sound to mix in.
 
Rick R said:
Most board feeds are line level via XLRs or 1/4" TRS. Even if you hire a sound person, that doesn't mean the house engineer/mixer will cooperate and give you a 'recording' mix or have the facilities to do so. i.e.: pre/post fader sends and/or a matrix. Typically, a 'house mix' is heavy on vocals and lacks electric guitars and such. If the board has direct outputs, you could multi-track record it and mix it later or a have your sound person mix it on-the-fly from the direct outs or sub-masters (stems). ALWAYS have room mics for applause/audience response and the 'live' ambient sound to mix in.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Rick. According to the producer the house engineer will set up everything for me and feed me a good mix. I think I'm going to pick up a Zoom H5, engage the -20 pad and keep my fingers crossed ...
 
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