Recording Concert (board feed)

[Noiz2]

Well said! I have been in your position. I always visit a venue in advance and try to make an appointment with the board operator. For concerts, plays, etc., I attend the rehearsal and carry extra coffee for the guy/guys on the board. Unfortunately, many times the operator has limited skill and does not understand my needs. Many times I help the board guy set up his equipment at the rehearsal! I bet you do too. At the big events, we are working with pros and they are busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest. These guys know exactly what you need and it is included in their standard setup. I work very few big events because they usually have their own production crew.

Some of the small house tech issue is I think the computerization of everything. At least in theatre, board ops had to know quite a bit to be any good (and they were not all good...) but now that pretty much everything is done in software now the gig has moved to more of a button pusher. It has the upside that you can do a sound design and your op really doesn't have to be very skilled, so better "quality" in schools and such where it's hard to find someone with experience. But a good operator is bored out of their minds on a button pushing show.

As a sound designer I find it rare now to find "good" operators who have a breath of sound knowledge in smaller venues.

I have around here someplace an intern questionnaire I used at a theatre I was the sound head for.

Actually found it.

 

[Bassman2003]

Sadly, I agree. Often now the operator does not even know how to activate the line output. The boards are overly complex imho for "normal venues". Knobs are better than screens for anybody less then professional.

 

[graywolf]

How many of you have posted that you did not have the budget for a real soundman? What makes you think they do either?

In some ways I am reminded of a scifi short I read many years back. Sometime in the future this brilliant mathematician figured out how to do long division without a calculator. No one believed him. Think that is silly? How many of you can calculate the cube root of a number without a calculator? I used to be able to do that, I am sure I could not do it today. How many of you know how to saddle a horse? We lose skills we do not keep using.

 

[scorsesefan]

Thanks again for the info and stimulating convo, guys... I wound up picking up a Zoom H5. It has a -20 pad. Does anyone know if I should definitely engage that when taking the line feed or is it a "play it by ear" situation (the H5 also records a -12 db backup file)? Also, I can't seem to find a line/mic switch on the H5 -- is there one or does it automatically detect? I'm also assuming you can take line in via the XLR as well as 1/4 trs?

 

[Rick R]

If the H5 is anything like the other Zooms with combo connector inputs, the 1/4" input is line. I perused the H5 manual, but it's unclear and ther's no schematic or block diagram either. Maybe someone here has one and can enlighten us, or it's real easy to figure it out.

 

[scorsesefan]

Thanks, Rick... Do you have any opinion on the pad?

 

[OzGizmo]

In you 'standard' kit its always good to have a couple of 40db pads (convert line level to mic level)....... They are not expensive and can save your butt.....When you need them you REALLY need them.

Just like a young single guy needs a condom in his wallet....Never going to know when you need it!!!!

 

[Noiz2]

In you 'standard' kit its always good to have a couple of 40db pads (convert line level to mic level)....... They are not expensive and can save your butt.....When you need them you REALLY need them.

I keep a couple of adjustable pads, they have three settings an so also help if you just need to knock a bit off and not go all the way down to mic level. You may also want a pair of iso blocks so your gear is isolated from the main system. They help a lot if you are getting a ground loop.

 

[scorsesefan]

I keep a couple of adjustable pads, they have three settings an so also help if you just need to knock a bit off and not go all the way down to mic level. You may also want a pair of iso blocks so your gear is isolated from the main system. They help a lot if you are getting a ground loop.

Thanks, Scott. So the H5 has a -20db pad -- does that mean the signal is automatically lowered -20db and then you have to adjust your trim accordingly? Or is it not that straight forward? Thanks

 

[Rick R]

I don't know if the H5's 20dB pad is applied to the line (1/4") input.. most mixers and recorders I'm aware of, only pad the mic input.. but who knows with Zoom.
I concur with Scott and the others about having in-line pads available.. (just in case). The Hosa ATT-448 is a 20/30/40dB pad for under $25. I also never leave home without some ISO transformers. I'm a 20+ year user of Sescom IL-19s. ("The Industry Standard") BTW, Sescom also makes a lower cost ($20) SES-XLR-ISO version, but it can't be directly plugged into panel mount XRLs.
Sescom/Markertek ISOs

 

[Paul F]

....

For big events with lots of inputs I have used Boom Recorder and an Alesis FW mixer. You could use a lot of other input devices, BR is compatable with a lot of devices.

And you can combine a lot of them to create one really big vertual input device.

.....

Scott - You mean for example, I can connect multiple 8-channel USB input boxes and they will work together? I've been wanting something like this. The manual doesn't make it clear that it can do this. I've wondered why ProTools doesn't do this.

 

[Noiz2]

Paul,

BR can use "aggregated" inputs, so yes you can use a variety of input devices and BR will treat them as one big interface. There should be a page on his site of devices that are known to work with BR and that list should also indicate if the device is "aggregate-able".

Also there are some mixers with a computer link that have a lot of inputs that will show up as iso tracks, so if you are looking at 24 tracks or less you can probably find a single box that can do it.

I believe the aggregating is a Mac OS thing so it may be able to dork on the current Protools? You could do that with the old ProTools (HD) by adding additional interfaces, but those were all Digidesign proprietary interfaces as PT didn't work with any third party interfaces. That also didn't work with PT Le and it's interfaces.

The main reason folks like Digidesign / Avid were very reluctant to support third party interfaces is control. If you stick some POS interface on and get all kinds of latency and problems Digi is going to take the heat. I'm sure there were $ considerations also since they sold hardware but the compatibility issue is something software that depends on hardware has a long and not pretty history with.

Even if Digi supported aggregated devices I wouldn't use PT for recording a concert. I like PT and have used it since V3 but it has never been a rock of stability. Boom Recorder is a rock. I have never had it glitch, it has a nice big buffer to handle disk writes that might otherwise cause a hiccup and it lets you take notes that connect to the recordings while the recording is going on.

It is not very well suited to studio music recordings though. You can't easily play back a recording and record to it, and you can't add tracks to a recording. It is very good at what it was designed for which is live production recording.

 

[scorsesefan]

The gig worked out but the feed was LINE out and very hot. The live talent was much louder than the DJ, so I had to keep adjusting my levels. Glad you guys recommended the -20 pad. Thanks...