F35: recorder options for F35

starcentral

starcentral

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What are the pros & cons and differences between some of the "low cost" digital recorder alternatives for the F35?

I'll update the first post here with any findings and further details. Originally my post looked at three recorders specifically but fellow DVX users have since noted some additional non-Sony recorders for consideration so I've added them to the list.

Then in typical fashion I went crazy, and started researching more and more and more...


12-bit 444 and 10-bit 422 up to 50p support
Odyssey 7Q ~ $1800
- wide range of codecs (some require licensing costs)
- supports dual link (required to get 12-bit 444 or 10-bit 422 HD 50p)
- 7.7" 1280x800 OLED touchscreen
- Uses proprietary drives
- Waveform, histogram, vectorscope, false color, zebras, 3D LUTs

Pix E5/E7 ~ $1500/1600
- ProRes Proxy all the way up to Apple ProRes 4444 XQ
- no dual link but with SDI multiplexer (AJA 3GM for $800 USD) you can get 12-bit 444 ProRes or 10-bit 422 HD 50p
- 5"/7" 1920x1080 IPS touchscreen
- Uses SpeedDrive or mSATA drives
- Waveform, histogram, vectorscope, false color, zebras, peaking, 3D LUTs
- 2x or 4x tapZoom

Pix240i ~ $3300
- 10-bit 422 ProRes / DNxHD *Up to 30p only on F35
- no dual link but with SDI multiplexer (AJA 3GM for $800 USD) you can get 12-bit 444 ProRes or 10-bit 422 HD 50p
- 5" 800x480 IPS screen
- Supports 1:1 pixel viewing
- Uses Approved SSD drives
- False Color, 2-level zebras

Codex
- 12-bit 444 DPX up to 30p
- From 31fps to 50 fps 10 bit 444 DPX uncompressed is possible
- Uses proprietary 512 mags
- Needs Data Transfer Unit for offloading

Gemini
- Uncompressed RGB 10-Bit 444 Recording into DPX file format up to 50p
- Uses Convergent Design SSD media drives
- 5" 800 x 400 screen
- 1:1 pixel viewing
- Can do 12-bit 444 Uncompressed with AJA LUT Box (see Film Scientist blog)

10-bit 422 up to 50p support
Blackmagic Video Assist ~ $495
- 10-bit 422 ProRes / DNxHD *Up to 30p
- *Up to 50p with SDI multiplexer
- 5" 1920 x 1080 135 degree angle colour touch screen
- 6G-SDI
- Histogram, Zebra stripes, focus peaking
- Uses SD Card Media

Atomos Shogun 4K HDMI/12G-SDI Recorder ~ $1495
- 10-bit 422 ProRes / DNxHD *Up to 30p
- *Up to 50p with SDI multiplexer
- 7" 1920 x 1200 colour touch screen
- 12G-SDI
- Waveform monitor, RGB parade display, Luma overlay, Vectorscope with zoom, focus peaking
- Uses HHD or SSD

10-bit 422 up to 30p support
AJA mini ki pro ~ $700
- 10-bit 422 ProRes *Up to 30p only
- Single Link 4:2:2
- Uses Compact Flash Cards

Atomos Samurai Blade ~ $500
- 10-bit 422 ProRes / DNxHD *Up to 30p only
- 5" 1280 x 720 IPS screen
- Single Link 4:2:2
- Uses standard HHD/SSD drives
- NO support for 1:1 pixel viewing
- Waveform, vectorscope, luma parade, RGB, false color, zebra, focus peaking.

Hyperdeck Shuttle V2 ~ $300
- 10-bit 422 ProRes / DNxHD / Uncompressed *Up to 30p only on F35
- Single Link 4:2:2
- Uses SSD Drives


Other
Sony SR-R1
- 10-bit 422 220Mb/s
- 10-bit 444 400Mb/s
- 12-bit 444 880Mb
- Uses SRMemory Cards

Sony SRW-1
- 422 1080p 60p
- 444 RGB
- Uses HDCAM-SR Video Cassettes

Teathered or wireless solutions
Blackmagic design ultrastudio mini recorder ~ $137
- F35 teathered via SDI for computer capture via thunderbolt
- 10-bit 422 up to 30p

Blackmagic Intensity Extreme ~ $280
- F35 teathered via SDI for computer capture via thunderbolt
- Will convert SDI to HDMI at device for extra monitoring if desired
- 10-bit 422 up to 30p

Teradek Bolt Pro 300 Wireless ~ $2990
- F35 wireless SDI transmitter to receiver with SDI *You still need a recording option
- 10-bit 422 up to 30p
 
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Without question the 7Q, it is the best supported recorder for the F35 behind the original Sony ones and the Codex. The others will be OK but a step behind.
 
If you're happy with 10 bit 4:2:2 ProRes or DNxHD and don't need variable frame rates I felt the Atomos Samurai on my F35 was quite good and certainly budget friendly. The exposure tools were decent, reliable, what you'd expect. No EVF for it, though. But I found the Blade had enough resolution to pull critical focus off of it with the pixel to pixel punch in.
 
keithlango said:
I found the Blade had enough resolution to pull critical focus off of it with the pixel to pixel punch in.
Click to expand...

I don't believe the samurai has 1:1 punch in, but man I'd love for you to correct me on that. Aside from the lack of de-squeeze it's the main thing I'm missing from it.
 
the other 2 are the ones you might use with your F35 before you get a 7Q. Get a Codex or a 7Q. 7Q's can be had as low as 1200. The hyper deck will break. The pix needs multiplexer and doesn't handle the 12-bit highlights. 7Q can handle everything the F35 can do except for speed ramping.
 
I know the 7Q is a very popular choice.

But in my opinion one of the best recorders for the F35 is the Sony SR-R1. I know the trend is monitor recorders. But I prefer a dedicated recorder for several reasons. The SR-R1 is also pretty plug and play. I never ran into some of the connection problems and "particularities" I have with the 3rd party recorders. I also much prefer it's recording media, robustness and codec selection.

The other option is a Codex. It's advantage is the interaction with the camera. But I prefer the SR-R1. The Codex DPX sounds good on paper but in practice not so much. It's also much older technology.

The SR-R1 is not the cheapest option. Matter of fact, currently it is actually the most expensive, as people are giving complete Codex kits basically away. But I thought I would add it to the list.
 
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One thing to watch out for if going the Codex route is to be sure to get one that has a transfer station. One of the reasons the Codex's are almost being given away is because they don't have the transfer station with them which is very hard to find and the Codex is useless without it.
 
This is true. But there are also complete kits floating around. Kits which include media and the transfer station priced at less than a SR-R1 plus a SR-D1 and a couple of SRMEMORY cards would cost. The Codex mags are particularly cheap compared to SRMEMORY currently.
 
MikalZ said:
I don't believe the samurai has 1:1 punch in, but man I'd love for you to correct me on that. Aside from the lack of de-squeeze it's the main thing I'm missing from it.
Click to expand...

Ahh, you're right. My bad. It's been a couple years since I had my F35 and Samurai, and in memory I mudged two different devices together in my mind.
 
Well I think the Odyssey certainly offers the best (external recorder) feature-set for the F35, with the added benefit of a proper HD screen for monitoring critical focus. But we just had a 7Q fail us miserably (under very trying conditions) on a shoot, where my PIX240 just trucked on seemingly oblivious to the wet and the wind and the long hours and saved us from disaster.

So on the basis of that experience, I'd have to put my recommendation on the PIX. It might also be worth looking at one of the new PIX-E5/E7 monitors as a lighter weight alternative to the PIX240, with MUCH better, full-HD monitor quality. Only thing is, at this stage (unless they enable dual-link input) you'll need an SDI Multiplexer to get 12-bit 4:4:4 or 10-bit 50fps into the PIX-E recorders.
 
Grug said:
Well I think the Odyssey certainly offers the best (external recorder) feature-set for the F35, with the added benefit of a proper HD screen for monitoring critical focus. But we just had a 7Q fail us miserably (under very trying conditions) on a shoot, where my PIX240 just trucked on seemingly oblivious to the wet and the wind and the long hours and saved us from disaster.

So on the basis of that experience, I'd have to put my recommendation on the PIX. It might also be worth looking at one of the new PIX-E5/E7 monitors as a lighter weight alternative to the PIX240, with MUCH better, full-HD monitor quality. Only thing is, at this stage (unless they enable dual-link input) you'll need an SDI Multiplexer to get 12-bit 4:4:4 or 10-bit 50fps into the PIX-E recorders.
Click to expand...

I replied to your urgent 7Q post but maybe you didn't see it. I wanted to know, if in the end, you were able to figure out why the Odyssey didn't work for you? What did support from CD end up saying, where they any help? And was it likely just the IF box from the F35?

thank for any info,
 
starcentral said:
I replied to your urgent 7Q post but maybe you didn't see it. I wanted to know, if in the end, you were able to figure out why the Odyssey didn't work for you? What did support from CD end up saying, where they any help? And was it likely just the IF box from the F35?

thank for any info,
Click to expand...

No, we couldn't pinpoint anything specific. Tried a bunch of different firmwares but without any luck. It appears that most of the clips we shot with it were fine (they recorded to the Odyssey intact). So the issue was its total inability to monitor or playback with an intact signal (even on playback things could look like they were horribly, irreparably ruined ') Even though the actual files were fine when we got them back on the computer.
 
Mitch Gross said:
This is to be addressed in our next firmware.
Click to expand...

The tearing and funky colours when monitoring or checking playback?

That's good to hear. Especially since (in spite of our horror story) I'm giving CD the benefit of the doubt and have just ordered a 7Q for myself.
 
Starcentral I didn't see you updated first post. Nice. But list is incomplete. You forgot Codex, SRR1 and of course SRW1.
 
Don't forget the Gemini. 10 bit 444, 5" screen, and can be found for ~$500 if you look hard enough. Cons: only uncompressed and no internal timecode.
 
I wanted to keep it to modern recorders you can still sort of buy retail "cheap". But sure, if you guys want I can add Codex, Gemini, SR1, etc.

I need to know if the Gemini will in fact support dual link from F35 for up to 50p in full HD?
 
Can your pix240 (Im assuming not the 240i) do 444 30fps and 422 50fps? How's the audio inputs on that sucker? can you control sound levels from it or do you need a pre-amp?
 
starcentral said:
I wanted to keep it to modern recorders you can still sort of buy retail "cheap". But sure, if you guys want I can add Codex, Gemini, SR1, etc.

I need to know if the Gemini will in fact support dual link from F35 for up to 50p in full HD?
Click to expand...

The SR-R1 is not really old technology. In fact it's the same tech currently used in the F65. That makes it current. Just because it's not a 2-in-1 monitor/recorder combo it doesn't make it not modern. I have come across this line of thought before and never understood it. Out of trend is not the same as obsolete. It is also much superior to the system in place in the F55.

The reason Sony developed a new system for the F55 was because people complained how expensive the SRMASTER workflow was and Sony could never get the prices down. So they had to bump it down a notch instead. SRMEMORY is probably the best recording media and system out there, with SStP SR being one of the best codecs. And the SR-R1 gives you three flavors of it. 10-bit 4:2:2 220Mb/s, 10-bit 4:4:4 400Mb/s and 12-bit 4:4:4 880Mb/s, which is only a 2:1 compression so basically as good as uncompressed. It's like having ProRes, ProRes444 and Uncompressed in the same recorder, but with a much better codec.

So you have the SR-R1 features wrong in your first post. It can also record 12-bit 444 from the F35. It's basically a digital version of the old SRW-1 tape recorder without the S&Q features but with added 12-bit support. In my opinion the only better option for the F35 is the SR-R3. But that never come to life.
 
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