Recommend a camera anyone? (Non newbie and actual use info!)

Michael Carter

Michael Carter

Veteran
Hey all -

Long time DVX 100b user, been doing a lot of work with the DSLRs, even have a couple 550d spots running on national cable/comedy central/lifestyle channels...

Landed a gig that's more info-mercial-ish, and thus I'll need good audio. Budget is limited and in the DVX days I had good success doing my own audio with stationary mics and lavs (never used the on-camera - I'm an audio geek and write all my backing music in ProTools so I understand plenty about good audio). I'd love to get the AF100, but (a) I need something soon and (b) with a lens or adapters I assume that path will eke up to the $10k range before long.

So - I need something with built in XLR or an as-good adapter solution; shoot 1080 or 720 progressive; and I'd like something like Panny's cine look (ala DVX) and a true 24p vs. the conforming stuff used with the DV tape-based cams.

Sounds like the 150 would be a very smooth transition for me - anything else I should look at? Anything in the $1k - $3k range? I've researched a lot, but we're all pretty "real world" around here.

With the 150 and the similar SD card cams, is the workflow similar to DSLR for Final Cut - transcode to ProRes, or are the files native? I'll be using FCP and AE on a recent mac pro.

And how does the footage key? I've pulled a lot of DSLR keys but find it almost impossible to get a really perfect key with the insane aliasing - and I really do a great job of screen lighting, subject separation and subject lighting. (I figure when I do get an AF100 or scarlet or whatever, I'll be in keying heaven after what I've learned with Canon's compression). I have a great lighting selection that's about 80% daylight and enough tungsten power to gel down, I'm finding daylight on the DSLRs is far cleaner than the "blue gain" tungsten setting for noise.

Thanks for any input/advice - I'm currently absorbing all the Panny threads, and I do like the idea of any interface and usage familiarity I can carry over from my DVX days.

Hey, anyone need a 35-hour 100b???
 
HMC80 is an option, sharper than HMC150 and a few hundred cheaper. HMC80 needs light, but if you are doing info-mercials you should have it. Best way to edit AVCHD in FCP is to use an intermediate codec like ProRes.

A better cam for green screen is the HPX170. It has 422 color and a easy to edit more reliable codec in DVCProHD. The audio section of the HPX is also good. P2 memory is a more expensive but much more reliable memory system. You'll need less light with the HPX, but the images, while beautiful, are not quite as sharp.

The HMC150 is a AVCHD version of the HPX, so while you save a few bucks and get very similar images, you have to live with AVCHD and SD memory, which many people do and are very happy.

IMHO, if I had the money, I would stick with the HPX. It is a very good all round professional cam in a DVX sized package. If I had lighting and a limited budget, I'd go with the sharp HMC80 shoulder mount, or for the least cost, the HMC40 handycam with audio adapter. If I had a slightly larger budget, and not much light, the HMC150 fills the bill.

I started with a DVX100a and now have a HPX170 and a HMC40. Both cams have a place at different price points. The camera transition will be easy, though HD shooting requires more care. The HMC40 is very compact with less physical switches, more menu driven control, and a mediocre VF and flip-out. it is a tremendous value for the IQ delivered The brand new shoulder mount HMC80 has more switches, a better VF, built in audio section, but the sensor is the same as the HMC40. The HPX170 is the ultimate DVX upgrade. The HMC150 sits somewhere in the middle.

Grant
 
Dude - thanks a million, that's exactly the sort of rundown I was hoping to find.

I'll have to poke around for some raw AVCHD footage - I may have to green screen people in front of a big flatscreen or something. As I wrote, I've wrung keys out of Canon footage (D90? Don't even try...) so I may have an "if I can do that..." atttitude. I'd like a close look at the aliasing/sharpening, but it won't be critical cinema-effects level stuff.

I'll keep reading - I really feel this will be an interim camera, odd to spend some serious bucks on it - but I generally don't buy things unless there's a very clear payoff idea, even if it's months vs. weeks. (But my DVX paid for itself the week I got it...) thanks again, truly appreciated.
 
No doubt for green screen, the 170 would be the best choice, and it is a good choice period. Having said that, there are folks who have reported doing green screen successfully with AVCHD. One thing is for sure, the WFM feature on any of the Panna cams makes this so much easier. Light your screen, look at the WFM, and move your lights around until the WFM is even. Well almost that easy.

Grant
 
I get great keys from my 150. I do transcode to Cineform, but the point is that the AVCHD is fine if you shoot it right (af100 will be AVCHD, too). In addition to some of the things mentioned above, I knock detail way down in cam when I'm shooting GS. Makes for easier keys.

If you checkout my latest Thrillfest entry "Abducted" I've got a shot keyed from my 150 at around 1:50 - 2:00 in.

This post has a raw screen grab.
 
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