Real cost of camera

smelni

smelni

Veteran
Ok - so I am started to get sucked into the frenzy over RED- It will certainly be an amazing product.

We talk about it being 17K - but what is the real cost - when you factor in the camera, cage, lens, capture device, storage, processing needed etc.

Lets get some real estimates - I wouldnt be surprised if it doubled the costs when you really look at it.

Same thing happened with the HVX - I have and use and LOVE the HVX - but it isnt a 5500 dollar camera - not even close - it is double the cost when you upgrade froma dvx

so whats the real cost here?
 
I'll guess $27K with recording device, cage and one zoom lens (hoping the zoom won't be twice the price of the 300mm). More if you went for multiple Red primes.

You will need sticks and a head that can support it if you only have a rig for the smaller cameras.
 
If you're talking about EVERYTHING - computer, NLE, monitors, accessories, support, minimal lighting package, microphones, etc... Then, hold your kitty and wish on a star, but I calculated for it to be around in Canuck bucks about $70-75 thousand.

That's if you buy everything at once, and want to shoot to 2K and master to HD/DVD, while having basic production equipment and finishing yourself.

Most people don't want to create a mini-studio, and already have some applicable equipment, though. And there is big stuff that you can do to minimize cost, like shooting on stills, using 720P or 1080p, renting lights, microphones etc.. as needed. Knowing where your budget level is, and what you're willing to trade off is essential, IMHO.

:beer: :beer: :beer:


RED # wish I was higher
 
RIght - i guess i should have been a little more specific - I am talking about an upgrade from a present camera like the hvx to RED - so not all the studio stuff - but the items to complete the camera and giv eyou the ability to work with the footage (including editing, archiving etc) -

ok I am going to get beer now :)
 
Well, a quick guesstimate rundown, based on published stuff:

Red camera: $17,500
Red lens (not shipping at same time I'd guess, since not even a price yet): based on the long prime, I'm WAGing it at $8000. I don't know lenses, I'm just adding several thousand to the known lens' $5Kish.
Red cage: not required, no idea - $1000? But is it essential?
Red recording stuff: $2500 should be a usable amount to get going

Post stuff:

Mac Pro, w/3rd party RAM, 3rd party drives (no RAID required for native editing): $5000
Coupla good/big computer monitors: $2000
Final Cut Studio: $1300 (right?)
AJA or BMD high end setup with breakout box for 4:4:4: $2800 max
HD CRT so evaluate color: $2300 (JVC's 1710CG)
Archiving - that's a toughie - to shelve drives, or plunk down for LTO3 tape drive? I dunno on that one. LTO3 drives are $3-4K I think

This puts the base price around:

Red setup: $29K w/cage, $28K without

computer setup: $13,500 dead minimum to get rolling here.

Push up to $20K for more/better computer monitors, an eSATA RAID, etc. Final Touch HD is a nice HD 4:4:4 color corrector, $5000 for that, and $5K-$25K for control surfaces for that. LTO 3 drive, add $3-4K for that. Good speakers, mixer, amp, FireWire drives, cable gack, etc., keep on going...

So roughly $45K minimum to get'er done with a dead minimum self contained kit, then add more software, lenses, lighting gear, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Everybody will be different - for some it might be $40K, for some it might be $300K.


(and for the record, I have no inside scoop, this is me guessing. If I knew anything, I wouldn't be publicly guessing).
 
MikeCurtis said:
Well, a quick guesstimate rundown, based on published stuff:

Red camera: $17,500
Red lens (not shipping at same time I'd guess, since not even a price yet): based on the long prime, I'm WAGing it at $8000. I don't know lenses, I'm just adding several thousand to the known lens' $5Kish.
Red cage: not required, no idea - $1000? But is it essential?
Red recording stuff: $2500 should be a usable amount to get going

Post stuff:

Mac Pro, w/3rd party RAM, 3rd party drives (no RAID required for native editing): $5000
Coupla good/big computer monitors: $2000
Final Cut Studio: $1300 (right?)
AJA or BMD high end setup with breakout box for 4:4:4: $2800 max
HD CRT so evaluate color: $2300 (JVC's 1710CG)
Archiving - that's a toughie - to shelve drives, or plunk down for LTO3 tape drive? I dunno on that one. LTO3 drives are $3-4K I think

This puts the base price around:

Red setup: $29K w/cage, $28K without
Click to expand...

Just wanted to chime in that I think your website is one of the best on the net Mike. I also agree with your guesstimates.

And now that I know what smelni's criteria is, as he's hopefully he's enjoying his scandanavian lager :) The only addendums I'd add to Mike's is :

Production :

Still lens (instead of RED or other lens ), set of primes - $2500.

Depending on what format you're shooting on, I think a follow focus will be needed. $1300 ?

So, you're probably looking at around $ 23-25K, for a basic set up with still lenses.

Post :

Mike is the master here, so I'd defer to his guesses :) Although, I'm still wondering about RED codec.

I do think you would need some decent audio monitors $ 1500

And an HDTV to preview your final mix. $2000?

I'm sure everyones needs and budget willl be vastly different, but if you're already shooting and editing with the HVX, then I don't think you should need a tom of gear to transition to RED (as long as were not talking 4K acquisition).

So, probably 23-25K for still lens RED, is a good ballpark figure. 28-33K for a cine lens RED kit.

For post figures refer to Mike, and add on my additions, if they suit ya'. ..

RED # wish I was higher
 
Well, a quick guesstimate rundown, based on published stuff:

Red camera: $17,500
Red lens (not shipping at same time I'd guess, since not even a price yet): based on the long prime, I'm WAGing it at $8000. I don't know lenses, I'm just adding several thousand to the known lens' $5Kish.
Red cage: not required, no idea - $1000? But is it essential?
Red recording stuff: $2500 should be a usable amount to get going
Click to expand...

Ok i can't resist:
$17,500 basic camera body
$1,000 Red Drive enclosure plus software codecs with hard disc.
$1,000 spare hard discs (assuming they can fit enclosures)
$ 800 shoulder mount
$1200 EVF High resolution (if completed for shiping with camera)
$7,000 s16mm or 2/3rds good decent quality used zoom lens or used
cheaper satisfactory s35mm zoom lens, since Red zoom not likely
to be available when camera is shipped (guess only!)
$300 decent cheap still lens whatever you can get for that money!
$1800 minimum price for decent qualityTripod
$ 300 Rain Cover made for Red (underwater housing leave out for now)
$1500 Matt Box ( lets hope someone makes one for $500)
$ 300 Bag for Red camera and gear
$ 300 Assorted filters (don't know prices just a guess)


That comes out at $33,000 already. If you want to also have Red Ram then it will cost more. What will the focus assist be like? delay follow focus to find out or another extra. High def Tv. Dont see anything not needed there for me anyway.

Don't know enough about editing etc but guess you would want/like to upgrade your computer to a decent fast computer say woodcrest processor and appropriate graphic card and hard discs for your needs.
Add $5,000 for computer without screen.
Add $2,200 decent high resolution screen that will do the job in 2k

Price now $33,000 plus cumputer and high res screen $7,200

Thats $39,200 so round it off at $40,000 Without editing suite or upgraded editing suite etc. Alternatively you could buy a cheaper still lens zoom and get the Red zoom later on. Either way by the time you buy or upgrade editing or get the Red zoom you are hitting the $40,000 one way or another. Cant see a cheap tripod working at those resolutions and just gota hope the shoulder mount works great for trying to get a stable shot?

Me i have to get everything including sound gear so i have factored in around £30,00 sterling. This is based on me learning and reading books and reading and learning from you guys on this forum since i am new to all this.

Not only is this videography complex and difficult to do well, it is damn expensive if you want a quality finished product.

The most depressing thing about it all is will you have the necessary skill to fully justify the extra expensive involved in going the 35mm route.

I wont answer my own question:(
 
how much all depends on how you outfit it ..
and everybody will have a different bare min for their RED

IMO you might look at it how much will it cost you to get a better image then your present camera ...
i think that would be a RED with still lens with min red drive (or on baord drive ?) .. shoot 720 or 1080 and keep present computer - if it will not handle HD then make lo res proxy files to edit ...

IMO you get the camera and bare min accessories and you WORK with it !!
you rent what is need to earn $$ ... later you buy the fancy matt box, follow focus , new computer etc ...

i haven't broken a budget into how much is for what piece or written down what i'll need .. i just have a total i'm willing to spend for camera and camera accessories ( doesn't include computer , HDTV , editing) .. i'll try to get the most value for my $$....
what ever i doesn't fit into my budget - i'll rent when needed ...

$ amount .. i willing to go 40K ...
 
You can certainly keep adding and adding to the cost to pimp out the camera as much as you like, but you really don't have to purchase a whole lot more than the base camera if you want to get into Red for the least money possible. All you really need is the camera itself, a recording device, and a lens. The camera costs $17,500, they've said that they want to make the Red drives around $1,000, and as has been discussed, you can use a Nikon mount and 35mm Nikkor glass at under $100 each for a good lens. Total cost? Well under $20,000. Does that get you the ultimate Red setup ever? Of course not. But I think there have been a lot of wild "you need at least $40K to get into Red!" posts here and elsewhere lately and it's time that those myths are debunked. Spend what you can to get the best setup possible for your needs (such is the case with any camera). The nice thing about Red, however, is its modularity and simplicity in upgrading, meaning you don't have to shell out for everything the first day. It's a camera that grows with you.
 
Haakon said:
You can certainly keep adding and adding to the cost to pimp out the camera as much as you like, but you really don't have to purchase a whole lot more than the base camera if you want to get into Red for the least money possible. All you really need is the camera itself, a recording device, and a lens. The camera costs $17,500, they've said that they want to make the Red drives around $1,000, and as has been discussed, you can use a Nikon mount and 35mm Nikkor glass at under $100 each for a good lens. Total cost? Well under $20,000. Does that get you the ultimate Red setup ever? Of course not. But I think there have been a lot of wild "you need at least $40K to get into Red!" posts here and elsewhere lately and it's time that those myths are debunked. Spend what you can to get the best setup possible for your needs (such is the case with any camera). The nice thing about Red, however, is its modularity and simplicity in upgrading, meaning you don't have to shell out for everything the first day. It's a camera that grows with you.
Click to expand...

I agree, great post.
 
Besides you can use RED as an HD camera, and not need a whole lot of processing and storage. Use it like you use an HVX, and you can use it with your current PCs...
 
I'm sure we'lll have a better pov, after Ibc.

But, since smelni was talking about costs going from an HVX to a RED, then I think the 20K # that Haakon posted is a bare bare bare minimum, but I would be more comfortable at a 23K bare minimum (for quality still glass). But, as the saying goes, horses for courses.

What format are you intending on shooting smelni ?
That's probably a better indicator of what your needs will be.

RED # wish I was higher
 
Well, I just think the $6,000 computers and $18,000 lenses that people are saying you "need" are a little overboard. First of all, you're going to need a computer to work with your footage regardless of what camera you use these days, so that isn't really a cost of RED as far as I'm concerned. And has been pointed out several times, many people will probably use RED in the beginning as a 1080 or 2K camera, and you shouldn't need redundant raids and 8 core CPUs to handle that stuff.

Sure, 20K is a bare minimum, but that's what it's intended to be: the base cost one can use RED with. Considering what that gets you, I'd say that's certainly a workable solution. I will probably go that route as far as owning the equipment, and then rent the expensive lenses on a per-shoot basis. That way I can shoot with the camera anytime I want, but also have the cine-quality glass available as I need it. Point is, I don't have to shell out $45K just to use RED. :)
 
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