Re: The PERFECT Indie Video/Cinema Camera

ectobuilder said:
But through your experience, how could the cameras you've used been different or improved to benefit the way you tell stories?
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...I don't think the camera you shoot with has any relation to the stories you tell. Sure having a Sony F5 or F55 camera would make life a lot easier in terms of capturing the image you want, but I don't see lesser featured low-cost cameras preventing anyone from getting their story out.

I can't wait to see wait to see Shane Carruth's Upstream Color on the big screen in April, mainly to see what a cheapo $700 GH2 camera can do in the right hands.
 
TheDingo said:
...I don't think the camera you shoot with has any relation to the stories you tell. Sure having a Sony F5 or F55 camera would make life a lot easier in terms of capturing the image you want, but I don't see lesser featured low-cost cameras preventing anyone from getting their story out.

I can't wait to see wait to see Shane Carruth's Upstream Color on the big screen in April, mainly to see what a cheapo $700 GH2 camera can do in the right hands.
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The tool you use has a great impact on how you tell the story. I'm not in any way implying that a cheap camera means lesser quality. If a GH2 fits the story then so be it (i.e. smaller form factor = more discreet, meaning your actor or subject may gain psychologically from this...etc or perhaps the short flange distance of the lens mount gives you the usage of a lens that is not available on other systems...etc.)

Conversely an F5 or F55 camera, being more "powerful" may not fit the story. The power of the camera is simply one variable to consider.
 
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David W. Jones said:
If your operators arms are fatigued from trying to hold a camera rig in an unnatural position take after take nobody benefits.
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Another great example of how story affects the usage of the tool. i.e. "...take after take..." this implies a slower moving production using stricter storyboarding...etc. Having said that, the movement of the camera in an ENG position will have a different psychological viewing affect (on the audience) than a hand held camera in front of the operator...etc. So once again this is determined by the way you want to tell the story.
 
That film looks pretty good. The GH3 is still in my top 3 picks.

TheDingo said:
...I don't think the camera you shoot with has any relation to the stories you tell. Sure having a Sony F5 or F55 camera would make life a lot easier in terms of capturing the image you want, but I don't see lesser featured low-cost cameras preventing anyone from getting their story out.

I can't wait to see wait to see Shane Carruth's Upstream Color on the big screen in April, mainly to see what a cheapo $700 GH2 camera can do in the right hands.
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My perfect cinema camera should have those specs:

$ - 10,000 Camera:

1) Latitude: at least 16 stops
2) Sensor size: FF
3) Codec: 444 at 12 bit
4) Resolution: Full HD
5) 2 XLR IN
6) monitor output with peaking
7) Low noise, High ISO

$ - 30,000 Camera:

1) Latitude: at least 16 stops
2) Sensor size: at least 6 x 6 up to 70mm
3) Codec: 444 at 16 bit
4) Resolution: 8K with real time downconversion to Full HD (no crop) option
5) 4 XLR IN, 4 separate audio tracks
6) Monitor out with peaking
7) Low noise, high ISO
8) No Rolling shutter
 
I would use photo lenses for the FF (or VistaVision ....:Drogar-Dolar(DBG):) and Medium format lenses for the other. (Hasselblad, Mamiya...)
 
add a global shutter and full size audio i/o to any of the current DSLRs and id be happy as a clam.
 
Latitude Latitude Latitude Latitude Latitude Latitude Latitude Latitude Latitude Latitude Latitude Latitude Latitude Latitude
 
S35 size chip
RAW
Global shutter (ala f35)
14 stop dr
Easily interchangeable mounts (ala RED)
Fully internal recording
Over 300fps that didn't crop the sensor (down rez is fine but none of this cropping stuff)
Alexa form factor

A boy can dream right?
 
i dislike such conversations, as expectations and desires are always going to be 2 generations beyond what's current at a given price point.

you put any of the current cameras in the hands of someone in 2004 and seriously tell me that they'd have any reason to complain?
 
Darren Levine said:
i dislike such conversations, as expectations and desires are always going to be 2 generations beyond what's current at a given price point.

you put any of the current cameras in the hands of someone in 2004 and seriously tell me that they'd have any reason to complain?
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Truer words are seldom spoken.
That being said, I've been waiting for something with the specs I listed since I first shot on a DVX in 2007...
 
Ok. This is what I would want and I think could solve most issues at least for me.

Super16 sensor with m43 mount.
Ergonomicially like alexa but way smaller like aaton minima or aaton xtr.
Codec wise I would say either Avid DNxHD 422 or a 50mbps 422 codec much like Canon Mxf.
11-13 stops DR.
Preferably should use CF cards.
There should be a log mode. Slog or Clog, anything. And like bmcc should able to show rec709 color but shoot in log.
Should take known accesories like sony's f series batteries or anton dionic batteries.
Price wise should be 2-3k.
 
Super16 sensor with m43 mount.
Codecs: ProRes; MP4; RAW
13 stops DR
There should be a log mode. Slog or Clog, anything. And like bmcc should able to show rec709 color but shoot in log.
Frame rates: 24, 25, 30, 50, 60


 
why stop at 13 stops of DR? why not 30?

why only 300fps? why not 3000? why not 30,000?

why only rec 709? why not P3? why not Adobe RGB?

hey daddy what's a square? and why do we have air? hey daddy, can I have that elephant over there?
 
What I have posted is somewhat doable. All the companies have invested hugely in s35 and m43 sensor cameras like Sony came out with FS100 and F3 and so on and Canon with their C300 and C100. Nobody bothered about S16. Red did think about it. But then gave us a mini version of Epic. Red should think about it.
 
My perfect camera for today (being realistic) is:

DSLR-ish form factor
S35 or MFT Sensor w/13+ stops DR
Global Shutter
Built in ND filters
24, 25 & 50P @1080p (faster frame rates at 720p)
Compressed RAW and DNX/ProRes switchable (422 10bit)
2x CF slots
EVF/LCD w/Peaking, user selectable Zebras, audio level display
SMPTE Timecode w/sync input
A detachable battery grip type attachment w/ 2XLR inputs, Audio level display, Line/Mic level input switches and two audio level pots (knobs)

More importantly than the camera, I would like to see a 12-85 (MFT) or 17-85 (S35) internal zoom lens with constant f2 or 2.8, proper declicked iris ring, proper mechanical manual focus with hard stops at under $3000

Christmas is only 2 1/2 months away...........That's a start.

Darren Levine is correct though, compared to 10-20years ago, the indie film maker is spoilt for choice with ridiculously affordable cameras than can imitate the look of the top cine cameras. Back in the day, for less than $10,000 we had 1/3 inch cameras with awfull DR that could never come close to replicating a 35mm motion picture camera.
 
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