ectobuilder
Veteran
Re: A7S - Rolling Shutter
In case you haven't heard....
In case you haven't heard....
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Re: A7S - Rolling Shutter
- Thread starter ectobuilder
- Start date
philiplipetz
Veteran
Den produced one of the finest demo films for a new camcorder ever. Simply magnificent. Truly showed the A7s at its best. He was not hired to break it, and show it at its worst.
I understand people (me included) aren't happy about the RS on the A7s and even the AX100. Cool, but now calling Sony Crony??? Really? Both cams in 1080 have greatly reduced RS. They are incredibly sharp at both 1080 and 4K. The 1DC has bad RS in 4K mode but I don't see people calling Canon names for that. This is a new low in my opinion but anyone can say anything they want and please. I will utilize the tools available till something better with compressed 4K options come by.
homestar_kevin
Well-known member
people must be really really bored.
FrameFarmMedia
Veteran
Don't worry Canon has been called a lot of things surrounding the 1DC... mostly from people who would never buy it anyway.
When I look at a DSLR I just see what checks the boxes and order them in importance to me as everyone should. For some RS is a deal breaker. For others DR or ISO is a deal breaker. To each their own. I think the worst part of the drop in cost to achieve amazing images is now everyone expects everything at bottom rate prices and then act personally offended when a company in the business of making profit doesn't give it to them. Consumers need to think of themselves as an individual not some giant buying conglomorate with the power to demand companies do things (and pay the minimum).
Darren Levine
Veteran
should be the masthead of every camera thread.
Rolling shutter is probably the most peculiar artifact we have, since it's a relatively new development which seems to have just been a side affect to the new design. was fine for photography, but dslrs really brought out its nastiness.
C100 levels of RS i'm completely fine with, even a bit more is fine, but i like to do some birding with my cameras, and fast movement indeed happens.
still not sure if i'll keep the ax100 for this reason. went to the skate park the other day and most shots came out fine, but still a decent amount with some obvious skew.
dustylense
Veteran
Try using the active stabilizer on the AX100. To me it seems to curb the RS without much resolution hit (which the camera can actually use a resolution hit as it's sometimes too sharp). I thought about returning the AX100 but the more I use it the more I like it. Its a good camera to take along at all times. I actually de-sharpen it in post. But I'm most likely gonna pick up a Gh4 too.
Lenilenapi
Carbonite Member
The A7 looked pretty interesting to me at NAB, but the incredibly high ASA (forget the number) they're touting just looked like golfballs. It had to get down to 20,000 or less before it was useable which as I recall isn't too different from say an F3 or a C300
paulcurtis
Veteran
The amount of RS is a bit of a disappointment regardless of marketing and promotional tactics.
Although these are prerelease cameras so it's not ideal to draw a conclusion, they don't even have a real shipping date or price. Maybe the internals aren't running at full speed yet (yes, grabbing at straws here)
I'm caught between an A7 and A7s, i need a new camera for stills. The RS would make me think twice but need to wait for more examples. I remember the RS of the Red cameras and everything else when they first hit - as Den says in real life it's never quite so obvious
cheers
Paul
Although these are prerelease cameras so it's not ideal to draw a conclusion, they don't even have a real shipping date or price. Maybe the internals aren't running at full speed yet (yes, grabbing at straws here)
I'm caught between an A7 and A7s, i need a new camera for stills. The RS would make me think twice but need to wait for more examples. I remember the RS of the Red cameras and everything else when they first hit - as Den says in real life it's never quite so obvious
cheers
Paul
Darren Levine
Veteran
i did try a bit of the active mode, which seems to be an improvement on the rx10, but i've not yet charted it or otherwise gone to see if it introduces artifacting like active does with the rx10
interesting that you had the same feelings about returning it. to me it feels like this disjointed balance between pro-ish abilities and tools, with consumer-ish packaging and limitations. I'm still trying to nail down a consensus if i have a place for it in my bag
the A7s being a dslr, it of course will have dslr-ish camcorder limitations, but it seems even consumer end dslr bodies have a way of feeling more pro-ish in some ways with video than a consumer(?) camcorder like the ax100
At some point i'll either find the camera that gives me back what i've been missing from my long gone ex1, or i'll just buy another ex1 (hint: proper power zoom)
LOL I just finished testing the steadyshot modes on the AX100 with the conclusion that active steadyshot reduces both resolution and dynamic range, and therefore I would never use it
I'd rather have the slightly less stable slightly wider angle with the greater resolution and dynamic range. Some day we'll get it all....I do believe who ever shot that sony promo was given an extensive list of what could and could not be done with the beta cameras. Think about it, it's THEIR BABY! According to one of their engineers they have been developing it for over 2 years, you think they are going to let someone highlight its weaknesses? If the good and the bad is what your after, the last place you will find it is at the product launch or it's promotional video
It's pretty simple, if you shoot a lot of fast movement and action, you should be shooting with a smaller sensor or global shutter. There is no alternative once you make the jump to selective focus sized sensors(unless you have the bankroll). Over the last 3-4 years of running around with dslr's all over the world(only ever using shoulder stocks and tripods). I can count the number of times on one hand that myself or clients noticed the rolling shutter. Considering the moves in which in which they happened, it really was more my fault then the cameras.
At the end of the day it's a full frame camera that shoots(arguably) c300 quality footage, and fits in the palm of your hand. Achievement? Massively! While everyone else is eyeballing the 4k feature, my mind is still blown away by the 1080 mode with no line skipping or pixel binning! Also the Viewfinder on that camera is nothing short of brilliant! The only other camera with these features is the c300(and c100 without the vf).
The gh4's RS should be an improvement but at the cost of sensor size, sensitivity, resolved detail and dynamic range.
It's pretty simple, if you shoot a lot of fast movement and action, you should be shooting with a smaller sensor or global shutter. There is no alternative once you make the jump to selective focus sized sensors(unless you have the bankroll). Over the last 3-4 years of running around with dslr's all over the world(only ever using shoulder stocks and tripods). I can count the number of times on one hand that myself or clients noticed the rolling shutter. Considering the moves in which in which they happened, it really was more my fault then the cameras.
At the end of the day it's a full frame camera that shoots(arguably) c300 quality footage, and fits in the palm of your hand. Achievement? Massively! While everyone else is eyeballing the 4k feature, my mind is still blown away by the 1080 mode with no line skipping or pixel binning! Also the Viewfinder on that camera is nothing short of brilliant! The only other camera with these features is the c300(and c100 without the vf).
The gh4's RS should be an improvement but at the cost of sensor size, sensitivity, resolved detail and dynamic range.
FrameFarmMedia
Veteran
I agree with everything except for resolved detail. I don't for see resolved detail being worse in the GH4.
Samuel H
Major Contributor
In normal 1080p mode, the a7s will put the gh4's HD footage to shame. In 4k, with daylight or sufficient lighting they will likely resolve similar amounts of detail. But in any kind of situation where light becomes questionable, the a7s will continue to resolve far past the point where the gh4 becomes useless
All image elements are important of course, but at the top of my tree are dr and colour science. And dr isn't just about the brightest and darkest parts of the image. The a7s might be double the price, but its image may be worth it. So far I've only seen one human shot by a gh4 look good.
Christopher Barry
Veteran
Steve, in 2013, for the first time, I was editing a bunch of 5Dmk2/3 multi-camera projects. While we discuss various lens type bokeh rendition, for which I am a glass addict of the vintage kind, I realised that 'big sensor' bokeh was a component I had not factored into part of a 'look' that I like, a component of the final image. Most of the projects I edited last year, and this, were shot with Canon lenses, however, the 5D's sensor size really was what grabbed me. Canon mount will never work for me and my old optic friends. E-mount adaptation is already here and widely available, thanks mostly to the NEX camera series and the E-mount 18mm Flange Focal Distance.
If all the ducks line up, some more footage, testing and reviews follows favourably, the A7s/a7s additional cost over and above the incredible value and features of a camera like the GH4, the Sony will still pay for itself quickly with a few decent paying jobs that follow. I will add big sensor size to your list of criteria, which I agree with. tick tock...