Re: 1DX Mark II - First Impressions?

E

ectobuilder

Veteran
Re: 1DX Mark II - First Impressions?

Well what does everyone think about this new camera?


What I find interesting in the press release is the following:

"4K/60p and Full HD/120p video can also be recorded with virtually no restriction, and with exFAT format support, movie files of larger than 4GB can be recorded without the need to merge files."

So by "virtually no restriction" I take it to mean:
1) 4K 60p + HD 120p are BOTH recorded in Full Frame (not cropped).
2) No more 29 minute record limit.

And just having googled "exFAT" and how this affects not needing to merge 4GB files, it appears that exFAT has a maximum file size of 16 Exabyte. So this appears to be a really good choice for recording continuous events (the dual pixel AF will help with sporting events too).

If true, then this is starting to look like a true video camera.
 
ectobuilder said:
So by "virtually no restriction" I take it to mean:
1) 4K 60p + HD 120p are BOTH recorded in Full Frame (not cropped).
2) No more 29 minute record limit.
Click to expand...

They are talking about recording times and file sizes.

You definitely don't want the 4k mode to be full frame (which it isn't). It's a clean 1:1 pixel crop of the sensor resulting in the highest image quality. And since the sensor size has increased to 20.2MP from 18MP, the 4k crop gets even closer to S35 size.

I quite like the 1.3x crop on the 1Dc, but it means that a lens like the Sigma 18-35 f1.8 is vignetting. I haven't gotten around to doing the math on the new sensor, but some APS-C lenses might cover the 4k mode on the 1Dx mkII.

The 120 fps mode will probably be pretty soft.
 
AndreeOnline said:
You definitely don't want the 4k mode to be full frame (which it isn't). It's a clean 1:1 pixel crop of the sensor resulting in the highest image quality. And since the sensor size has increased to 20.2MP from 18MP, the 4k crop gets even closer to S35 size.
Click to expand...

Where do you see that its cropped?
 
It also appears that 4K recording is Motion Jpeg...and....no LOG. So....besides the 60P (which is nice)...it seems to be a minor step up from the 1DC. Sure, it has AF in video mode....but I'll have to wait and see what the profiles look like (which I am not excited about). Being Motion JPEG....plan on spending a lot of money (hours in time in post) for this workflow.

Im not a Sony guy....but would love to see a real life comparison to the A7Sii.
 
roxics said:
Where do you see that its cropped?
Click to expand...

I don't think there is any information one way or another. I've got no reason to think Canon has changed the approach from the 1Dc, where it's 1:1 pixel for pixel.

And for the record, 1:1 is the better version in my opinion.
 
AndreeOnline.....you totally called the "no LOG" on this camera. You predicted that weeks back. It had not even crossed my mind that they would not include it.
 
AndreeOnline said:
I don't think there is any information one way or another. I've got no reason to think Canon has changed the approach from the 1Dc, where it's 1:1 pixel for pixel.

And for the record, 1:1 is the better version in my opinion.
Click to expand...

You are definitely more informed than me on the 1DC workflow. I have not actually used the 1DC. I have shot extensively in 4K - 5K environments....but not specifically the 1DC - Montion JPEG workflow. Is the transcoding process very lengthy....for....lets say 2 hours of 4K footage? (assuming one is using a top of the line computer).


Also....do you see a major image improvement from the 1DXII from the 1DC?
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
You are definitely more informed than me on the 1DC workflow. I have not actually used the 1DC. I have shot extensively in 4K - 5K environments....but not specifically the 1DC - Montion JPEG workflow. Is the transcoding process very lengthy....for....lets say 2 hours of 4K footage? (assuming one is using a top of the line computer).
Click to expand...

I'll be upfront and say that my FCPX workflow might not transfer well to other NLEs. You should be able to do something similar with DaVinci Resolve, especially the latest version with its internal transcoding capabilities. For other apps like Premiere it's better that actual users speak up.

The reason I say it's quick in FCPX is that you just import the files normally and let FCPX convert in the background to "optimized media". You'll end up with ProRes 422. During this time you can work with the files as you normally would. If you've got a 128GB card full to the brim—sure it's a bit longer to convert—but I don't even think about this conversion. It just happens. It's not unusual that I start the import and then do something else anyway. Since there is no additional step I have to make, in my mind it's like I've shot ProRes to start with.

Once the auto conversion is done I drag the ProRes files from the "optimized media" bin to the "original media" and overwrite the MJPEG. Files sizes are very similar and there is no quality loss that you can see. I've checked with difference layers in PS too and it's negligible.

For anyone who wants to check the workflow for them, I still have some old non-converted clips up here: https://copy.com/rDIskAZ7Fq1f

These are Log clips out of the camera.

ReelWorksMedia said:
Also....do you see a major image improvement from the 1DXII from the 1DC?
Click to expand...

The 4k60 mode will essentially be a full quality 60p mode at 800 Mbps. In many situations, especially where you can control the light, these files will be awesome.

I also think that since users are forced to use a normal profile they can use any ISO down to 100 and the 8bit codec will benefit from using it's whole range with few stops (no elevated black). But who knows: maybe the 1Dx can eek out 12 solid stops in the Neutral profile? It still won't be as cinematic a curve as log, but the files will be nice and fat.
 
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It's a little strange to me that Canon reserves C-Log for their C series, but then adds DCI spec 4K and 24p recording to this camera. I'm not complaining about those additions. It's just mixed signals.
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
Is the transcoding process very lengthy....for....lets say 2 hours of 4K footage?
Click to expand...

I have 1Dc and generally just batch convert the footage with an older Cheese grater MacPro and Mpeg Streamclip. I made a couple presets for 4K and 2K down convert. It's really easy to set up batch and I just walk away from it. It's not fast, but I generally don't need an immediate turn around. If I need it faster and have more content... I'll use my a 2nd computer at night to process, but I have had a few 48hr renders on my cheese grater. I think it took 36 hours to convert 2hrs and 40 minutes of 4K to 2K ProRes 422 HQ recently on the old quad 2.6 cheese grater. I generally only shoot B-Roll in 4K with my 1Dc so it's more like 30-40mins being converted over night.

Best Regards,

Chris McGuinness
www.pulsecinema.com
 
A couple thoughts for me:

I like this camera, but if it truly does not have Clog, my guess would be they actually make still make a Mark II of the 1Dc... Maybe.

Positive:

1. 4K 60p is great! (So why does the C300 MK ii not have this?)

2. I like that it won't break up 4K into 1 Minute clips anymore.

No real negatives here, but a bit scary that they say that CFast cards slow down with usage! One of our fellow DVXUSERS had problems with CFAST Cards corrupting and dropping all the media. These
where Lexar cards... I believe they where Lexar 3400x cards, but he was told by Canon that the only cards to pass for Canon are SanDisk any other would be a risk. I am assuming SanDisk will likely be the safest media for now. I use a couple SanDisk 256GB cards and a couple Lexar 128Gbs CF cards in my 1DC with no issue.

I did not see if the HDMI supported 4K output, it looks like just uncompressed 1080p? It would be nice to be able to record 4K to an external recorder and use SSD drives.

Best Regards,

Chris McGuinness
www.pulsecinema.com
 
It looks like what Canon did was just hand over all of the 1DC programming that could be easily transferred to the 1DX without getting the cinema team involved. CLog probably wasn't added because it would require reprogramming for the new sensor. The S35 mode was dropped due to the new sensor size. I'm guessing the FHD mode will look exactly like the mode on the 1DX, which would be a real travesty, but Canon doesn't seem concerned with their pixel binning and oversampling strategy. Since owning the 1DC, it has become obvious that the cinema team doesn't communicate with the DSLR group, and I think the 1DX2 confirms the segmentation of the DSLR and cinema camera work.
 
cpreston said:
It looks like what Canon did was just hand over all of the 1DC programming that could be easily transferred to the 1DX without getting the cinema team involved. CLog probably wasn't added because it would require reprogramming for the new sensor. The S35 mode was dropped due to the new sensor size. I'm guessing the FHD mode will look exactly like the mode on the 1DX, which would be a real travesty, but Canon doesn't seem concerned with their pixel binning and oversampling strategy. Since owning the 1DC, it has become obvious that the cinema team doesn't communicate with the DSLR group, and I think the 1DX2 confirms the segmentation of the DSLR and cinema camera work.
Click to expand...

You could be spot on about this. Seems like they created this on the DSLR side without bringing in the cinema side....keeping the cost down. To combat this....they just put the biggest bell and whistle....4K60P. Honestly, i'd take LOG over that any day. It looks like a nice camera....just not exactly what I was hoping for.

For a $6K camera not to have LOG...that is a real shame....an extremely silly decision.
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
It also appears that 4K recording is Motion Jpeg...and....no LOG. So....besides the 60P (which is nice)...it seems to be a minor step up from the 1DC. Sure, it has AF in video mode....but I'll have to wait and see what the profiles look like (which I am not excited about). Being Motion JPEG....plan on spending a lot of money (hours in time in post) for this workflow.

Im not a Sony guy....but would love to see a real life comparison to the A7Sii.
Click to expand...

The specs show for 4K @ 60p it is recording 4GB of data per 39 seconds of footage!!!
 
I like the camera, but still not sure about purchasing it.

So now what? Is a 5D Mark IV going to have 4K? C100 Mark III with 4K around the corner?

Does the release of this camera in April or later mean any other camera will be released in the summer/fall?

(P.S. - FCP X transcoding workflow is fantastic. Although, I use proxy as it's quicker and easier on the system).
 
NorBro said:
... So now what? Is a 5D Mark IV going to have 4K? .
Click to expand...
A continuation of the keiretsu system. This is why Samsung's presence was so important here. Not being part of the cartel, they upset the apple cart. But, with the consumers ignoring it, the photo-video industry went back to its arranged feature sets where each model has to slot in precisely as per the stipulated agreement.

PS. AJA Cion, BMD, Kinefinity, Apertus had tried to take advantage of the situation and basically all failed. BMD may be the only one standing in the low end of the market, if its URSA Mini lineup delivers and it has two strikes against it already. Really, the market is begging for some Chinese company to jump in and deliver an FS7 type camera for $2,500 but the major China based manufacturers are looking at other things first.

PPS. Red is coming down from their higher end days into a more affordable milieu ... but they're still far from a $2,500 FS7.
 
I have to say that I still think that a hacked 5DM3 is the most appealing solution. I'm hoping the M4 (or whatever it will be called) comes out soon so there will be a price drop on the M3.
 
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