FS7: Raw to the Odyssey 7Q

On the bright side, you do get Gen Lock, Jam sync audio, Pro-Res and an integrated V-Mount. For some, the Gen Lock and Jam Sync is necessary.

But yeah, Convergent should stop adverting that the 7Q works with the FS7. It's a bit misleading.

I am selling my XDCA for $250 off retail with free shipping if anyone is interested. USA only though as overseas shipping is tough.
 
We have never stated that we are done with improving the signal processing between the FS7 and the 7Q+. This could not be further from the truth.
 
Ben Scott said:
The truth of the matter is the 'raw in banding' issue between the FS7 and the 7Q seems to be much more to do with the Sony outputting a linear signal side of things than the Convergent Design side of things, but unless Sony suddenly decides to change the way the camera outputs raw data, the 7Q is essentially not fit for purpose as a raw recorder
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Mmm I might have it all wrong but I don't think this is the case. RAW is by nature is linear and cinemaDNG is a linear file format - and while linear demands more bitdepth to hold in the shadows the banding I have experienced is worse than 8 bit imagery. I believe it takes about 11 bits to make up a comparable bit coverage of sRGB @ 8 bit at it's worst - and 12 bit doubles that.

Pick up a good ol' 1000D Canon SLR (12bit raw) and process a raw. You will not see banding like on the 7Q. I think the data is being heavy processed through a correction just to get it to where it needs to be and it's gapping the data.

I do hope the new firmware addresses it so I can finally have the format that I bought the 7Q for.
 
That's good to hear Mitch, although also a touch cryptic. Improved is one thing. Fixed and doing what it was advertised as doing is another. Again I appreciate that might be as much to do with Sony as it is Convergent Design, but I spent £3,000 based on you saying raw was identical to the Fs700 and extolling the virtues of the 7Q being the perfect partner for the FS7. It transpires that months after my purchase that is still nowhere near the case seeing as how it can't record raw without horrendous shadow banding and can't record raw to pro res with the awful contrast problems.

Will the banding in raw ever be fixed?
Will Pro Res recording ever be accurate slog relating to what the camera sees?

If the answer is yes then brilliant, it would really make sense to be clear on the issues and let people know what is happening And when, considering how long it has been. If the answer is no/maybe/don't know then we'll, then I've been missold a product.
 
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revilo3d said:
Mmm I might have it all wrong but I don't think this is the case. RAW is by nature is linear and cinemaDNG is a linear file format - and while linear demands more bitdepth to hold in the shadows the banding I have experienced is worse than 8 bit imagery. I believe it takes about 11 bits to make up a comparable bit coverage of sRGB @ 8 bit at it's worst - and 12 bit doubles that.

Pick up a good ol' 1000D Canon SLR (12bit raw) and process a raw. You will not see banding like on the 7Q. I think the data is being heavy processed through a correction just to get it to where it needs to be and it's gapping the data.

I do hope the new firmware addresses it so I can finally have the format that I bought the 7Q for.
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Raw by nature is completely different for every Company. As it relates to the likes of Arri or Red raw has a log curve applied to it before it hits a recorder, allowing for far more complex information to be used on shadow and highlight detail.
 
Ben Scott said:
Raw by nature is completely different for every Company. As it relates to the likes of Arri or Red raw has a log curve applied to it before it hits a recorder, allowing for far more complex information to be used on shadow and highlight detail.
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To clarify, there is not an inherent problem with linear data if there is sufficient bit-depth. The data from the sensor is linear to begin with. However applying a log (or other) curve can allow you to pass the linear data through a transmission or recording system with a lower bit-depth.

For example (and this is a hypothetical example - I don't know the numbers for the FS7) if a camera has 12-bit A/Ds on the sensor, but the SDI output is only 10-bit, just chopping off the last two bits will have a noticeably degrading effect on the picture. If you instead log code at 10-bit, you can turn that back to 12-bit linear which is visually indistinguishable from the original.
 
Let me try to be as clear as possible:

We are working to fix this at or as close the source as possible. We are trying various solutions and will continue to work to correct any and all imaging issues.
 
While my FS7 is at Sony to have a broken DC in fixed, I followed eagerly all te NAB announcements. First, the announcement of various new features for my Odyssey 7Q made my day. Now, having read the last couple of posts here regarding the still occuring RAW and Prores issues, I am now seriously considering to sell it all for a new camera system. I really, really hope that we get some clear statement regarding a fix (or no fix at all).

I am an early adopter of the 7Q and waited a long time for some of the features. "Working on it" doesn't help us - our units get older and older and lose more and more value.

Even if it is partially Sony's fault, the promise that the 7Q would fully support Sony FS7 Raw and be covered by the FS Raw option was an important reason why I chose the FS7 over other cameras.
 
In fairness, the 7Q DOES now fully support Sony raw. It's just that Sony raw, as it comes out of the FS7 is horrific.
 
As far as I can ascertain, with regards raw recording the bugs on the 7Q side have been addressed and it is now accurately capturing the raw output. But that output is pretty awful if you have the merest hint of a shadow in your frame.
 
I spoke with people at Sony at NAB. It is their problem. Hopefully we'll see a fix from Sony soon.

I will say, however, that the 4k RAW is beautiful and doesn't have the shadow banding problems that you see in 2k RAW.
 
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